But you're just a young fellow, Steve!

I find I'm relying more and more on Knowledgebase to recall how
to do stuff...I now make a point of recording the details once I've
figured out how to do it the first time.

Jon

Steve Forbes wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
> I reckon I'll still be coding in 10 years, but I'll hopefully be retired and
> doing it totally for pleasure I've got so many ideas and no where near
> enough time to follow through
>

Hi Steve,

> IMHO Delphi has a shelf life = Win32 development, once that disappears so
> will Delphi. Heaven help us when we are in the clutches of M$, but I don't
> see any alternative.

Oh great! I've been crook for the last few days - get back to my computer,
and the first thing I read is this. I think I'll go back to bed, and pull
the covers over my head  

IMO, .net is still relatively new technology and still has a lot to proove.
Maybe Delphi will dissapear, but I'm sure we have a bit of time first too.

For instance, when going from DOS to Windows, there was a large significant
difference as far as the end user was concerned. The whole new windows
platform made it easy to see whether an application was an older 'DOS' app,
or a newer 'Windows' app. .Net does not have the same 'end user' difference
to view. Whether we develop in win32 or .net - it will appear the same to
the end user, so it won't look like win32 bit applications are worse off
from an end users point of view.

I also think it's way too early to guess what may happen. With so many
developers, including great 3rd party developers and products out there for
Delphi, it's possible that Delphi may appeal to some companies we haven't
even thought of yet - and maybe for some reasons beyond our current
understanding.

Michael made an interesting point in this thread about China. It is possible
that there are entities out there, that may want to even develop for various
platforms (including .Net), but don't want to be under Microsofts full
control. Delphi could be a prime target in this instance, if this was true.
It's already setup, with a great base of developers and 3rd party components
out there.

I've only ever migrated from one language, which was Paradox PAL to Delphi.
It was exciting, because it gave me so many more possibilities of what to do
(in a Windows environment). I won't be excited if I have to change again,
because I can't see the benefits outweighing the time it takes to learn
another language and loose a lot of what I have developed (and purchased)
for Delphi, just to build an application that looks the same, operates the
same, but oh - it operates on .net instead of win32.

Maybe if I was developing for Mac's as well, this may be an advantage, but
at this point it's not.

My main concern is that Microsoft purchases Delphi. If this happens, I fear
that they will try to assimulate it into their other products. Maybe this
could be a good thing, where they give Delphi more support, but I don't have
that sort of faith in Microsoft, and I'm concerned they'd purchase it to
destroy it.

Thankfully I have been wrong before though (my wife keeps reminding me of
that)...  

Hi Jon,

> But you're just a young fellow, Steve!

Young at heart, .. but my kids keep telling me I'm an old fart

> I find I'm relying more and more on Knowledgebase

Glad to know you find it useful!

--
Best regards

Steve

"Jon Lloyd Duerdoth" <jld@welshdragoncomputing.ca> wrote in message
news:392478FA-884A-43B6-9899-4A3FD5EA6D16@news.elevatesoft.com...

Hi Adam,

> Oh great! I've been crook for the last few days - get back to my computer,

Hope you're better now.

> and the first thing I read is this. I think I'll go back to bed, and pull
> the covers over my head  

Don't believe a word I say, mate, I'm just full of s..t :-P

> to view. Whether we develop in win32 or .net - it will appear the same to
> the end user, so it won't look like win32 bit applications are worse off
> from an end users point of view.

Except they will be noticeably slower (at least on the current hardware), ..
there was talk that the .NET runtime core would eventually embedded on the
chip, which would certainly help.

> (in a Windows environment). I won't be excited if I have to change again,
> because I can't see the benefits outweighing the time it takes to learn
> another language and loose a lot of what I have developed (and purchased)

Agree, this will be a forced migration, rather than one by choice.

Avagoodone!

--
Best regards

Steve

"Adam H." <ahairsub4@rREMOVEMEspamSTOPPER.jvxp.com> wrote in message
news:5514E0F3-E542-4EDB-82AC-CC82E88FA81E@news.elevatesoft.com...

Hi Steve,

> Hope you're better now.

Thanks - I am. I've learnt (the hard way), that it's better these days to
jump into bed straight away, than to fight through. You get over it so much
quicker, otherwise I normally spend twice as long off work because I pushed
too hard.

(Well, that's my excuse for slacking off, and I'm sticking with it

> > and the first thing I read is this. I think I'll go back to bed, and
pull
> > the covers over my head  
>
> Don't believe a word I say, mate, I'm just full of s..t :-P

A fellow Victorian full of it.... Never!

> > to view. Whether we develop in win32 or .net - it will appear the same
to
> > the end user, so it won't look like win32 bit applications are worse off
> > from an end users point of view.
>
> Except they will be noticeably slower (at least on the current hardware),
...
> there was talk that the .NET runtime core would eventually embedded on the
> chip, which would certainly help.

But even then, wouldn't VCL .Net allow us to utilise all the benefits of
..Net without learning a new language, and dumping all our existing code? (I
know their may need to be small rewrites of some sections of code, but I was
under the opinion that when I wanted to go .Net, I just load my existing
code into VCL.Net / Delphi.Net in BCD2006).

> Avagoodone!

Shall do. Gonna be a warm one this weekend...

Cheerio

Adam.

> there was talk that the .NET runtime core would eventually embedded on the
> chip, which would certainly help.
.... the sales of hardware

The *only* problem my customers and friends (i.e. everybody I know) experience
with current versions of windows is - viruses and spyware. The bad thing
about .Net is that I already know how to write a virus for .Net, which in fact
will be even easier to distribute, then currently with a regular exe.
We're going straight to hell with it, IMHO, and the fact, that your
buttons will be shinier then ever won't help it.
<I'm in talkative mood obviously The only way to get
somewhere in my opinion is to completely redesign the way OS runs
applications, get rid of registry and lots of other things. This is not
done, AFAIK. I know that most of my customer's computers are infected.
Only yesterday I had to help one to reinstall my software, because the
computer was destroyed by a virus (a rare case, but it really went on
rampage corrupting data). Every computer I see has at least one spyware
installed not detectable by the anti-viruses they have. Nobody is able
to tell (by name of executables or otherwise) which programs are installed
on a particular PC. I was monitoring network recently in one university
(administrative office) and I could see, that half the traffic is
generated by worms. This is all very very sad...

Other then that, I didn't heard of *any* feature yet, that is easier to
implement using .Net, then a good 3rd party Delphi library. The only
exception could be asp.net and even there I'd prefer Delphi and
even more so jsp or php.
It's funny, I tested the speed of jsp vs. php processing. Jsp
(as well as asp.net) is precompiled, while php is a simple (well
optimized) interpreter. I was amaized as PHP runs about 10 times faster.
You get your web page much quicker. The scripting language itself is
*very* advanced. I'm thinking of moving my website to PHP (if only
I had more time to do that).

What I mean here, by all of the above, is that in my view, .net
gives NO functional advantages to NO ONE. If you need to get a job
done right and quick, there are IMO far better technologies in
each and every respect spread everywhere around us - and they won't
require you to upgrade hardware.

</talking>

Regards,
Michael

Hi Mike,

I couldn't agree with you more! I don't like the thought of having to use
..NET, but I think it is almost inevitable.

--
Best regards

Steve

"Michael Baytalsky" <mike@contextsoft.com> wrote in message
news:CA2B9F81-F5A7-4D1D-9E89-7A7CC2157AC5@news.elevatesoft.com...

> I couldn't agree with you more! I don't like the thought of having to use
> .NET, but I think it is almost inevitable.

I just read last night, that Microsoft Office is going to be developed in
Win64, instead of .Net. I found that really interesting (if it's true). Is
their a smoke screen out there, giving the illusion that .Net is the only
real way to go, when there are going to be other, perfectly fine
alternatives (such as win64)?

I'm just glad that win32 will be useable, and around for years, and be able
to complete quite easilly with .Net (as the end users won't see much
difference) so we can wait for the dust to settle, and find out where we
*really* should be going.

And, I aint going anywhere until I can take my favourite database with me
either.  

Avagoodweekendmate...

Adam.