We've updated our support policy in an effort to address concerns from
customers about the lack of support with product subscriptions.  All product
subscriptions now include product support from us via the support forums.
This means that I will be providing support on the support forums daily, and
they are no longer only peer-supported.

However, in order to make the new policy work, we have had to prevent anyone
from posting messages in the support forums that does not have an active
subscription for the corresponding product.  So, you may not be able to post
any new messages until you renew your product subscription.

For more information, please see the blog post from Sam here:

http://www.elevatesoft.com/blog?action=view&id=subscription_policy_update

You should also be receiving an email directly from us concerning the
update.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Sam at
sales@elevatesoft.com.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Tim


It is your company and hence your right to make such decisions, however, if I understand what you are proposing correctly, I would like to say I deplore the change. My basic assumption is that "product support forum" = newsgroups. If that is incorrect please ignore everything below.

When you initiated the last change it was made clear that official support should be channeled through the support sessions and direct support via email, phone and that these forums would be user supported.I have tried to follow this and pointed out to others that these are user supported newsgroups.

I only posses a current subscription to ElevateDB but I am still willing, and occasionally able, to offer support on the DBISAM newsgroups. With this change I may no longer do so unless I pay for the privilege.

I can understand people's frustration with seeing you spending time responding to posts on the EWB newsgroups and not the others but, from personal experience, an "official" request for support has always been met quickly and with your usual thoroughness.

I appreciate the fact that you are still permitting lurkers which is something some other vendors may not allow but I do believe that this is not a good idea and request that you re-think it.

I would also request that anyone with views either way respond to this post.

Roy Lambert

I realize I'm pretty late in responding to this thread but I don't get on the forums very often and so am just now catching up.

In the past, I have posted questions on the forums thinking it surely must be an issue someone else has seen or at least if not, I'd get an official response that others could not only see and benefit from but also add to the conversation. I've viewed the forums as a community of people that can share ideas and tips--as informal peer support.

I have also used the paid support directly to Tim for issues that are either urgent or would not likely be interesting to the general public. It has been clear to me why both were needed as the forums served a wider and less formal audience than paid support. It's also been understood that responses were not always accurate answers nor are they immediate.

Re-reading the policy change and reading Roy's response makes me question why the policy change was really needed. I believe this change of restricting non-paying users to post in those forums whose subscription has lapsed will actually increase the burden of Tim for support. For example, what if someone is evaluating the product?  Where do they post questions?  They would have to send emails to support, taking more of Tim's time that could be shared by other customers (customers that frequent the forums more often than myself!). I've seen this in the past, but it sounds like it will no longer be allowed.

While it will be nice to have a greater presence from Tim in the forums, I have to agree with Roy that this seems overly restrictive.

What about having a paid-product support forum separate from the free forum?  Or at least making one section open to the public?

Another idea is that to get an official support response, the poster would have to be a current subscriber--the forum software could be modified to indicate those with current subscriptions.

Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much either way, but I too, am surprised.
--
David Cornelius
Cornelius Concepts

Just to throw my plumber's nickel in here, I always appreciate Tim's involvement in the newsgroup. I also, like others, will send questions direct to Tim if I think something needs to be addressed, without posting on the forums or if a speedy answer is needed.

I look at some of the other component companies, like TMS, who only offer access to their forums when they have a subscription.  But they've done it that way for some time.

I would maybe suggest having a peer-only forum for each product that would have full access and then make the others subscription based.  This allows an option to help people who are evaluating the product and Tim can jump in or not as he chooses.  This would then allow him to focus on those who have paid for support and use the subscription access forums so that not only it's peer support, it can also allow others to benefit if an answer from Tim provides a solution.

Part of why I've actively promoted Elevate has been the support and the active user base who help peer support the product.  This is beyond the quality product that it is.  But I'm also, like many here, very conscious of the fact Tim has yet to properly code a self-cloning algorythim and get it to compile and operate correctly. Until then, there are only so many hours of the day.

Lance,

<< I would maybe suggest having a peer-only forum for each product that would have full access and then make the others subscription based.  This allows an option to help people who are evaluating the product and Tim can jump in or not as he chooses.  This would then allow him to focus on those who have paid for support and use the subscription access forums so that not only it's peer support, it can also allow others to benefit if an answer from Tim provides a solution. >>

At this point, we're busy enough that I'm finally at a point where I can honestly say that I'm not particularly concerned with developers that don't want to spend money with us.  Every type of "free" service that we've offered has ended up being abused in one way or another, and right now I need every hour that I can spare to be spent on product development.

I *am* doing some pricing analysis to see if we can look at doing more country-specific pricing, and if it's do-able, that would provide an avenue for our products to be more affordable world-wide, and not just in certain countries.  But, we want *real* customers with skin in the game, not some illusory "potential" customer that plans on purchasing just after the rapture....

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

"But.... I'll become your VERY best customer!!!!!"   

I get what your saying. And I think its great to look at pricing world wide. I know that it can dramatically affect opportunities with the Euro conversion and such.

I want to see more EDB out there.  I also get a miffed (and I say so) on the Emb surveys when they ask for the DB's used and Nxxxx is named, but not EDB.

Keep up the good fight.... and the awesome product!

Lance


Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:

At this point, we're busy enough that I'm finally at a point where I can honestly say that I'm not particularly concerned with developers that don't want to spend money with us.  Every type of "free" service that we've offered has ended up being abused in one way or another, and right now I need every hour that I can spare to be spent on product development.

I *am* doing some pricing analysis to see if we can look at doing more country-specific pricing, and if it's do-able, that would provide an avenue for our products to be more affordable world-wide, and not just in certain countries.  But, we want *real* customers with skin in the game, not some illusory "potential" customer that plans on purchasing just after the rapture....

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Lance,

<< "But.... I'll become your VERY best customer!!!!!"   >>

Yeah, heard that a few times....

<< I get what your saying. And I think its great to look at pricing world wide. I know that it can dramatically affect opportunities with the Euro conversion and such. >>

It's absolutely amazing how expensive our products are for Chinese/Russian customers.  For Chinese customers, the affordable price should actually be more around $99 ($249 US).

<< I want to see more EDB out there.  I also get a miffed (and I say so) on the Emb surveys when they ask for the DB's used and Nxxxx is named, but not EDB. >>

ElevateDB was a victim of the DBISAM success, to some degree.  At the time, I simply didn't realize how entrenched the existing DBISAM applications were.  But, we're slowly but surely moving people up from DBISAM into ElevateDB, and it's kind of moving along at its own pace.

Thanks,

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com