As I get ready to head off for Sunday morning ice hockey, I thought I'd make
a quick post to solicit some feedback on Elevate Web Builder from everyone
that has pre-ordered.  I know that it's only been a few days, and it's hard
to tell a lot without documentation, but I'm very interested in everyone's
general thoughts on the product.

Is there anything in particular that stands out as something that might
prevent you from using the product ?

Do you approve of the general direction/scope of the product ?  Where would
you like to see the product go from here ?

Does the product fit your definition of "rapid application development" ?

Thanks very much,

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Hi Tim.

I have only used your EWB tool for a couple of days, so my testing has been relatively basic up till today.
Anyway, this program seems absolutely to bee what I have been looking for (as mentioned elsewhere on these news groups).
I am aware of the fact that the program is not yet finished, but what I see today is absolutely promising for the future

I will try to give you some feedback here on what I have experienced so far (sorry for my poor English, by the way):

1.
I use MAC with my virtual Windows through Parallels Desktop.

2.
I have made an application (Hello World+). It works both when run in the EWB and when deployed on an ordinary web server (Apache). But when I compress the application through Project/Options, the application starts, but the main form does not show. This is the case both internally in EWB and in any browser externally.

3.
When I have run a program in EWB and return to the editor, the cursor does not show in most cases. I have to click on some tools a couple of times before the cursor shows up.

4.
In Delphi editor the program uses the indentation from the line above. I would like to be the case also in EWB, if possible. (Maybe make it an option).

5.
I would like to have a button for a quick way to change between form and code.

6.
I would also like to change the grid size when designing the forms, and I guess you will put in an option on this later on.

7.
When you use a MAC the function keys in a virtual Windows (through Parallels) do not work as in normal Windows. Therefore as a general idea I would like to have buttons instead of function keys combinations.

Conclusion: EWB is a very, very fine tool which works instantly with zero setup work to be done in ini- and conf files.

Kind regards
TorB.

---
Does the product fit your definition of "rapid application development" ?

>>>"Tim Young [Elevate Software]" wrote:

>>>Does the product fit your definition of "rapid application development" ?

While I have built some simple "Web Applications" I have not committed to building many of them because a tool like this was missing.  

This product is RAD for Web.

>>>Is there anything in particular that stands out as something that might
>>>prevent you from using the product ?

As a minimum feature set I think it needs (and I know you are working on some for these now):
- grid (in progress)
- dataset (in progress)
- date entry with drop down calendar
- mask on entry (only integer, currency, alpha)

in the Visual Form editor
- cut, paste of components
- need to control order forward/back for panels


Less important - as we can edit code before uploading but this should be simple to do:
- property on form (memo) where we can enter html code to be emited into HEAD tag (out own keywords, descriptions....) - It could be more RAD - provide memo poperties on Form typical Meta Tags - description, keywords...
- property on form (memo) where we can enter html code to be emited into BODY (google analytic tracking)


>>>Do you approve of the general direction/scope of the product ?  Where would
>>>you like to see the product go from here ?

Yes.

- Text Component (see attach example from Homestead Editor)
- file upload
- border property on panel, so you don't have to put two panels on top of each other to make a border
- line component
- sound file
- media files (movie with player - maybe just a YouTube)
- image effects - fade in...
- Form Inheritance - (or Frame) where you could change Header or Footer once - all pages would have "branding"
and consistency
- integration with EDB
- create or extend controls

The possibilities are endless....

Walter

Tim


I've only had about an hour playing with it. At first glance it looks as though it will be a very useful tool. I have no idea what I'm doing with it but that's not unusual for me.

I do have an idea for a project (an Idea I had about three years ago) which means learning how to do data access using EWB so the sooner the CD collector example makes it across the better.

Its going to be a couple of weeks before I get much of a chance to play.


Roy Lambert

Tor,

<< I have made an application (Hello World+). It works both when run in the
EWB and when deployed on an ordinary web server (Apache). But when I
compress the application through Project/Options, the application starts,
but the main form does not show. This is the case both internally in EWB and
in any browser externally. >>

Please email me the project and I'll take a look.

<< 3.When I have run a program in EWB and return to the editor, the cursor
does not show in most cases. I have to click on some tools a couple of times
before the cursor shows up. >>

I'll check this out, thanks.

<< 4.  In Delphi editor the program uses the indentation from the line
above. I would like to be the case also in EWB, if possible. (Maybe make it
an option). >>

The editor is pretty basic still, so this type of functionality will
certainly be added as things move along.

<< 5.  I would like to have a button for a quick way to change between form
and code. >>

The latest build has this.

<< 6. I would also like to change the grid size when designing the forms,
and I guess you will put in an option on this later on. >>

Yes, this will be added when the component alignment, front/back, etc.
toolbar is added for the form designer.

<< 7. When you use a MAC the function keys in a virtual Windows (through
Parallels) do not work as in normal Windows. Therefore as a general idea I
would like to have buttons instead of function keys combinations. >>

Noted.

<< Conclusion: EWB is a very, very fine tool which works instantly with zero
setup work to be done in ini- and conf files. >>

Thank you for your feedback.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Walter,

<< As a minimum feature set I think it needs (and I know you are working on
some for these now):
- grid (in progress)
- dataset (in progress)
- date entry with drop down calendar
- mask on entry (only integer, currency, alpha)  >>

I'll probably do a calendar control fairly soon.  The code is very similar
to how a combo box works, so there's really nothing new to figure out.

<< in the Visual Form editor
- cut, paste of components
- need to control order forward/back for panels >>

There will be new form designer toolbar shortly that will allow for
alignment, send to back/front, etc.

<< Less important - as we can edit code before uploading but this should be
simple to do:
- property on form (memo) where we can enter html code to be emited into
HEAD tag (out own keywords, descriptions....) - It could be more RAD -
provide memo poperties on Form typical Meta Tags - description, keywords...
- property on form (memo) where we can enter html code to be emited into
BODY (google analytic tracking) >>

Ahh, yes, good ideas.

<< Text Component (see attach example from Homestead Editor) >>

There will be an HTMLPanel component available soon that will allow you to
embed any HTML content, include special controls like media files, PDFs,
etc.

<< file upload >>

Working on this.

<< - border property on panel, so you don't have to put two panels on top of
each other to make a border >>

<< - Form Inheritance - (or Frame) where you could change Header or Footer
once - all pages would have "branding" and consistency >>

This is one I've been thinking about also.

<< - create or extend controls >>

This one is a tough one, primarily due to the duality of the code (web vs.
native).  What the code looks like in the framework for a control is vastly
different than what is happening behind the scenes at design-time.

Thanks,


--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Tor,

<< I have made an application (Hello World+). It works both when run in the
EWB and when deployed on an ordinary web server (Apache). But when I
compress the application through Project/Options, the application starts,
but the main form does not show. This is the case both internally in EWB and
in any browser externally. >>

Never mind about a project for this - I found out the problem and it's now
fixed.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Tim,

Only had few days to play with this so limited feedback yet.

Very promising is the word - i see using it for number of projects once
the product has had a bit of time to mature (and meanwhile will be using
it for proof of concepts, hobby and learning projects). Foundation seems
to be solid so now its just a matter to iterate with enhancements and
fixes which is the easier part

Direction is fantastic - i have dabbled in JS before but rapid
development to get a UI going with this, including functional controls
and object pascal underneath is great.

Things i'd be looking for (some you're doing, some might be just matter
of reading manual once it's available):

- more controls (grid is a must and i know you're working on it, ideally
also treeview type control and others already mentioned like date picker).

-IDE enhancements up to auto-complete would be nice but not crucial (i
know this will evolve)

- if something is not (possible) in EWB can we easily mix JS in project
or do we have to do it after in resulting file.

- mobile device support: my demo app runs fine on full browsers but for
now has issues with both ipad and (rim) playbook - ipad listview does
not get populated with items and on playboko button does not allow
clicking.
Desktop auto-size option is too large on mobile devices so i need to go
and change it manually once the forms are done to avoid large grey
background with small form on limited screen size.

Final reason why i'm very excited about this is that we have had a very
good track record with Elevate Soft products and support - both quality
and timeliness of response and resolution of issues and suggestions - so
its as much about picking a company and team behind it as it is about
picking a product.

Great start on EWB

Raul


On 12/11/2011 4:46 AM, Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:
> As I get ready to head off for Sunday morning ice hockey, I thought I'd
> make a quick post to solicit some feedback on Elevate Web Builder from
> everyone that has pre-ordered. I know that it's only been a few days,
> and it's hard to tell a lot without documentation, but I'm very
> interested in everyone's general thoughts on the product.
>
> Is there anything in particular that stands out as something that might
> prevent you from using the product ?
>
> Do you approve of the general direction/scope of the product ? Where
> would you like to see the product go from here ?
>
> Does the product fit your definition of "rapid application development" ?
>
> Thanks very much,
>

Tim,

As I only had 30 minutes to play with it given my early compile issues - take what I have to say with a grain of salt -

The overall direction - fantastic. Can be used quickly and easily, feels very nice. Delphi like enough that it was easy to build the basic tests with no issues.

Biggest concern - the ability to reuse other tools/technologies. For example - I have been playing with KendoUI recently - and it is a fantastic, more traditional JS toolset - with really mind boggling good client-side widgets. I would love to have the ability to combine JS code in EWB projects - including other libraries, the ability to select/operate using jQuery (which I suspect almost every JS developer knows how to use) - and specifically - somehow to get KendoUI widgets in there - because their widgets basically include everything we need to move our desktop application to the web without loss of functionality.

I definitely will have uses for EWB - at the very least as a support technology to create administration tools - but if there is a well documented way to make this code interchange and hosting of other JS libraries - to be driven within EWB forms - it would likely be the main development platform for me.

FWIW - I have written quite a few web applications, using anything from good old WebBroker apps, used the great (but dead) DevExpress EWF library (which was a Delphi version of good old ASP)  all the way to stand-alone Chrome Store apps - so I have a clear idea of what web application development is about - and EWB is a fantastic stab at the RAD aspect.

I just hope there will be ways to use and extend existing tools and technologies.

A simple way to start, for example, would be the ability to designate in the code that a section is pure Javascript and the ability to add "uses" statements to JS code (the classic example, obviously - jQuery).

So, assume that we have an event handler that has standard Pascal code - if we can do something like:

...normal pascal code...
#JSCode-Start
... javascript code
#JSCode-End
.. back to pascal code

- it will open the tool to use lots of well established technologies

Initial impression after working with this for a little bit is impressive.

Like Roy, need to figure out what to do with it.

One suggestion would be to do a Visual Studio type thing and when you save the project initially, provide an option in the save dialog to create a subdirectory using the name of the project.    I like to keep stuff seperated.

While understandably there are only a few components, it might be nice to do a similary EmBarCo component tool pallet to allow separation of different components, especially if additional ones are added.  Understand it's 1.0, so just feedback.

I too would like to see a toolbar button to switch between form / code.