Tim,

> As I said to Ole, I apologize for the rant.  You can post about design
> issues, just try to keep it a little less negative.  
Yes, sorry about that - my writing style (especially in english) tends
to be more affective and somewhat aggressive, then I actually intend.

I certainly don't intend to stir things up or anything like that (neither
does Ole, I'm sure). The thing is, when you begin testing it, especially
when it's something you've been waiting and hoping for for awhile,
you can't help yourself to become a bit emotional about certain things

I personally, don't really care much about following standards precisely
so long as it makes sense in a particular design and brings something of
value. However, ideally, every design decision should be justifiable
or at least explainable (time constraint, legacy code, backward compatibility,
requirement by valuable customer, etc.). Once I understand it, I no longer
question it

Regards,
Michael

Charalabos Michael wrote:


> I must agree with Ole which he said that THIS IS a good time
> for any change. (Rather after final release)

Perhaps, but not necessarily.  I think only Tim knows the answer to
that.

--
David Farrell-Garcia
Whidbey Island Software, LLC

Hi Ole,

There is no doubt that you have been a great help to both RDBMSs, I
appreciate it very much; all I'm saying is that when they decided not to
follow the standard, make your case and live with the outcome.

Believe it or not, I read *every* post in both DBISAM & NexusDB groups
(though I am not a NexusDB customer).

> You pretend to know me and the design/marketing objectives of another RDBMS
> vendor well. I simply need to chime in:

I do not know you, I can only form an opinion based upon what I read in
newsgroups. My opinion of you is very, very high, to say the least, and
I wish I could become as adept at knowing SQL as you, but there are
practical, real-world limits.

> I'm not sure what *history* you're referring to.

It is clear that you want RDBMS vendors to follow the standards
*perfectly* and you make sure they know it when they don't. When they do
not follow them *perfectly*, they are discounted greatly by you.

> I developed the NexusDB V2 SQL documentation as a paid job. This task was
> accomplished/ended 6 months *before* NexusDB V2 was released. After that
> I've been doing QA on the NexusDB SQL implementation on a free/voluntary
> basis.

> I've nothing against well-designed, properly implemented vendor extensions.
> When I often refer to SQL:2003, it's because this is the current SQL
> standard. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but SQL *is* in fact a
> standardized database language, defined and documented in the international
> ISO/IEC 9075 standard.

There is no doubt it is a standard, can you name 1 vendor that has
implemented it perfectly? DBISAM and NexusDB are very small companies.
How does Microsoft or Oracle respond when you point out their imperfect
implementations of the standard? You've said SQL Server is well aligned
with the standard, so how many misalignments does it take to become not
well aligned?

> << NexusDB made a big mistake in marketing itself as SQL 2003 compliant,
> because that gave Ole cause to completely rip it/them apart. >>
> That's a bold statement.

Keep in mind, I read the NexusDB newsgroups. I have since they began. I
stand by my "bold" statement.

> As far as I see it, implementing SQL:2003 has been a tremendous advantage
> for NDS and users of NexusDB. SQL:2003 is well defined and documented, which
> makes it easier to implement and test. Besides, the NexusDB users know their
> SQL code is evaluated according to standard, common rules in the RDBMS
> industry, instead of proprietary rules *invented* by the vendor.

But in your own words, they have not implemented SQL:2003, go back and
re-read your posts. They have implemented something other than pure or
well aligned SQL:2003, IMO.

Regards,

Jason Lee

Michael,

Of course, I was in no way trying to get Ole kicked out of here. I want
ElevateDB to be the best it can be and I think Ole can make a
contribution bigger than most of us can. I'm just saying, "you can catch
more flies with honey than with vinegar." By the way, I miss seeing your
real first name on the newgroups

> That doe't mean that we can't hear(read him.
> I really respect that he's trying to help even if he's
> working (worked?) with a competitor company like Nexus.

That's fine, Vista had thousands of developers. ElevateDB has only a
couple, while NexusDB has a few more than that. When you say "idiotic",
it can be taken a little more personally

> Well, i was part of MS vista beta program and i've seen that
> many users posted about idiotic "implementations" of MS on
> Vista  which some of them force MS to change them into the
> process of the betas/final.

Warmest regards,

Jason Lee

Hello David,

> Perhaps, but not necessarily.  I think only Tim knows the answer to
> that.

Of course.

--
Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.com -
http://www.creationpower.gr

Hello Jason,

> Of course, I was in no way trying to get Ole kicked out of here. I want
> ElevateDB to be the best it can be and I think Ole can make a
> contribution bigger than most of us can. I'm just saying, "you can catch
> more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Agree.

> By the way, I miss seeing your real first name on the newgroups

Emm, i think this is my "Correct english" name ...

> That's fine, Vista had thousands of developers. ElevateDB has only a
> couple, while NexusDB has a few more than that. When you say "idiotic",
> it can be taken a little more personally

I don't think that Ole's intension was to insult Tim.

>> Well, i was part of MS vista beta program and i've seen that
>> many users posted about idiotic "implementations" of MS on
>> Vista  which some of them force MS to change them into the
>> process of the betas/final.
>
> Warmest regards,

Thanks. It's kinda cold here in Greece thesedays.

--
Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.com -
http://www.creationpower.gr

David,

<< Perhaps, but not necessarily.  I think only Tim knows the answer to that.
>>

Some things yes, but others no since they would involve changes that would
basically set back EDB months further from release.  In those situations you
have to trust your own judgement and go with what you've got.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Michael,

<< I don't think that Ole's intension was to insult Tim. >>

I think Jason was trying to say that sometimes it comes across that way to
me in his postings, which is correct.  I may just need to get a thicker
skin, of course, but it's very hard to not take this stuff personally when
you've poured your heart and soul into it for as long as I have.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com