Guys, I tried this db for weeks now to make decision if we are going to use it or not,
I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile)
I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the application, incomplete documentation (other than basic
Steps), no internal and deep documentation this db useless, this is only site you ask question and the answer from other users
with incomplete answers most the time, your own your own. (maybe good product, sorry not for me anymore)
Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted my time and yours.
I hope developer this database cares more about tens of scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this site to ask simple questions

Linda,

I found the EDB documentation and support to be much better than other Delphi related databases. Did you see the link http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?category=edb for the manuals?

Barry

Linda

I am sorry to say that but YOU ARE ABSOLUTELLY WRONG.

1) Fragile database. Where ? Point some weakness ?
2) Small Database ? Why ?
3) Incomplete documentation ? It is an absurd to say
4) Incomplete answers from support ? This NG is one of most complete I have
ever seen in the web.
5) Take care with these words. If you don´t know to drive a Ferrari, please
don´t say "Ferrari sucks".

Just my opinion.

Eduardo

Linda,

I'm sorry to hear that you wasted your time - for the time I spent answering
one or two of your questions, don't worry, I don't feel you have wasted my
time as I always have received much more than what I have given to the
people in these newsgroups as well as to Elevate.

If you think EDB doesn't suit your needs then you are right in choosing
another database system and I'm not even going to try to rebate your highly
technical arguments - I have no idea how to demonstrate that EDB is not
*picky* or *fragile*.

Good luck

--
Fernando Dias
[Team Elevate]

On 17/01/2013 1:37 PM, Linda_web wrote:
> Guys, I tried this db for weeks now to make decision if we are going to use it or not,
> I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile)
> I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the application, incomplete documentation (other than basic
> Steps), no internal and deep documentation this db useless, this is only site you ask question and the answer from other users
> with incomplete answers most the time, your own your own. (maybe good product, sorry not for me anymore)
> Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted my time and yours.
> I hope developer this database cares more about tens of scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this site to ask simple questions
>


I cannot believe what I have just read!!

ElevateSoft is one (of a handful) of software developers in which I have
absolute trust.

Tim and the team do a great job in answering questions in this NG.  They
may not be an IBM, Oracle or whatever, but their price / performance
ratio is amongst the top ten DB people.

And .... it's not every day you can get an answer to your email from
"Bill Gates" himself.

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side?

Malcolm
Townsville, Australia

Linda

>Guys, I tried this db for weeks now to make decision if we are going to use it or not,

I'm certain that neither Tim nor any of the users of ElevateDB such as myself would want you to use ElevateDB if, for whatever reason, you think it isn't suitable.

I can understand the frustration caused by trying to learn something new and the feelings you get when it doesn't work in the way you think it should or that you're used to.

When I switched to ElevateDB I debated several times wether I should just give up on it or not but persisted and whilst there are still some things I would personally change I like it.

>I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile)

There is one of the problem areas. You're comparing ElevateDB with database systems costing vastly more than ElevateDB

If you have discovered flaws I think Tim and the people who are going to continue using ElevateDB would be ver interested in knowing what the problems are so they can be fixed. I for one would be grateful if you would take the time and effort to make a final post outlining the problems.

>I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the application, incomplete documentation (other than basic
>Steps), no internal and deep documentation this db useless,

Comparing Tim's documentation with that of many other Delphi components its brilliant. The on-line help which gets integrated into Delphi gives some examples but I accept that there could be more. However, back to a point made above, the cost of ElevateDB is so far below the cost of the other database systems you quote that I wonder if you've seriously considered how much more we would have to pay to get the level of examples you feel are needed.

>this is only site you ask question and the answer from other users
>with incomplete answers most the time, your own your own. (maybe good product, sorry not for me anymore)

I have to pretty much agree with the first part of the statement but feel obliged that this is the forum for the product so it pretty much makes sense for it to be the place to ask questions. Getting answers from other users - nothing wrong with that. I doubt that many of the sites you can get a question about Oracle answered are staffed by Oracle technical staff. Again your answers probably come from other users.

I really have to challenge the "incomplete answers". You've made three posts previously and I've just looked at those and I would say 1) you did get good answers in terms of the question, 2) when asked for some additional information you didn't supply it and 3) you never explained the context of the question in any of the three. The way it comes across is that you know how to do X in your current database and want to be told you can do it the same way in ElevateDB. All you seemed to be looking for is a different command name. Sometimes you need to do things in a different way.

>Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted my time and yours.
>I hope developer this database cares more about tens of scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this site to ask simple questions

I'm sure that if you offer to pay Tim for all the time it would take to produce the documentation to your standard he'd be happy to do so (or at least employ someone to do so). However, you've just put the licence cost up to £25,000 <vbg>

Roy Lambert [Team Elevate]

Linda,

It's unfortunate to hear that EDB did not work out for you.

Based on your 2 postings it's hard to see where you ran into issues
though outside some basic SQL syntax. It does not appear you attempted
to contact ElevateSoft for support  - coming from other products it's
hard to believe but there is actual support from Tim direct (and as far
as i know this applies to pre-sales questions as well).

There is a learning curve with any product and especially with ones
targeted at developers.

We have found Elevate products to be reliable, very affordable and
exceptionally well supported thru both excellent newsgroups and vendor
(how often can you skype the lead developer of some another product and
have him/her looking at your code ?!)

Raul

> I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile)
> I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the application, incomplete documentation (other than basic
> Steps), no internal and deep documentation this db useless, this is only site you ask question and the answer from other users
> with incomplete answers most the time, your own your own. (maybe good product, sorry not for me anymore)
> Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted my time and yours.
> I hope developer this database cares more about tens of scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this site to ask simple questions
>

<< I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and
disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile) >>

What exactly is "picky and fragile" ?  You're not doing yourself any favors
by making such blanket statements without any examples.  And, for the
record, being different in syntax and usage from SQL Server or Oracle is not
"picky and fragile", it's "different".

Your 3 questions:

1) How to convert a non-ANSI date string into an actual date:

Answer: CAST(), here:

http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?action=viewtopic&id=edb2sql&topic=CAST

Is this non-standard: yes, and each database engine can do it differently.
The standard dictates that CAST simply provide basic type transformations,
not formatting transformations.

2) How to execute a multi-statement transaction in a TEDBQuery:

Answer: You can't, and nowhere in the documentation does it say that you
can.  You just assumed that you could, because that's how other database
engines work.  In EDB, you have to use a script:

http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?action=viewtopic&id=edb2sql&topic=START_TRANSACTION

and there's a complete example of doing so right on that page.  I will say
this: there *does* need to be more information in the Delphi manual on what
constitutes a script and the fact that it uses dynamic SQL/PSM, and I will
make sure that this is added.

Is this non-standard: yes, and each database engine can do it differently.
EDB uses dynamic SQL/PSM in order to allow for looping, etc. and more
complicated processing while still providing an easy way to mix DDL and DML
statements together in the same scripts, procedures, etc. without causing
automatic re-compiles of the SQL/PSM.

3) How to create a temporary table from another table:

Answer: CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE AS SELECT... WITH DATA

http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?action=viewtopic&id=edb2&product=delphi&version=7&topic=Creating_Database_Objects
http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?action=viewtopic&id=edb2sql&topic=CREATE_TABLE

Is this non-standard: no, CREATE TABLE AS is the *standard* way of doing
things, as I already told you.  The INTO clause is *non-standard*.

<< I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the
application, incomplete documentation (other than basic Steps), no internal
and deep documentation this db useless, this is only site you ask question
and the answer from other users with incomplete answers most the time, your
own your own. >>

This is absolutely false.  Had you read the top of the support forums page:

"These support forums are provided primarily for peer-to-peer support and,
although they are monitored by Elevate Software support staff that will
answer support inquiries as much as possible, they are not a substitute for
phone or email support. If you need an immediate response to a support
issue, please use the phone or email support options that are detailed on
the Support page. You can access the Support page by clicking on the link at
the top of every page."

But, not once did you email or phone us for support (at least not that I'm
aware of).

<< Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted
my time and yours.   I hope developer this database cares more about tens of
scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this
site to ask simple questions. >>

The documentation will never answer every question in the way that all users
need it, which is why we have searchable support forums and other resources
like direct support to help people through the initial stages of usage.  You
chose not to avail yourself of these resources, so I can't see how that
decision is our fault.

If you expected to find SQL Server/Oracle level of resources on the web for
ElevateDB, you were mistaken.  We don't have legions of
developers/consultants providing free examples and documentation on our
product on their blogs, etc.

Bottom line: you cannot approach ElevateDB with unrealistic expectations and
then fault the product when it doesn't live up those unrealistic
expectations.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Hi Linda,

For a minute I seriously thought you'd posted to the wrong newsgroup,
cause what your describing is not an ElevateDB product I know of. Infact
it seemed like you where describing something of the complete opposite.

Obviously when you are used to something or expect something a certain
way and not open to change then it's easy to see it as a problem... You
could of been using ElevateDB for years then checked out say 'Oracle'
and be posting the exact same feelings on an Oracle news group.

Just my thoughts, but I do hope you find what you need out there.

Phil.


On 17/01/2013 2:37 PM, Linda_web wrote:
> Guys, I tried this db for weeks now to make decision if we are going to use it or not,
> I worked with SQL, Oracle, DB2, few others, never had frustration and disappointment like this small database. (very picky and fragile)
> I wasted my time just to figure out couple important part of the application, incomplete documentation (other than basic
> Steps), no internal and deep documentation this db useless, this is only site you ask question and the answer from other users
> with incomplete answers most the time, your own your own. (maybe good product, sorry not for me anymore)
> Sorry to say that, I think I’m in the wrong place and very sad I wasted my time and yours.
> I hope developer this database cares more about tens of scripts with a lot of examples to help others instead wasting time on this site to ask simple questions
>

Tim

>If you expected to find SQL Server/Oracle level of resources on the web for
>ElevateDB, you were mistaken. We don't have legions of
>developers/consultants providing free examples and documentation on our
>product on their blogs, etc.

I have to correct you here. The examples and documentation you may find is not free it is built into product cost / consultancy or developer fee rates. It may be done as part of marketing but the costs do get rolled up somehow into what customers are charged. You may not have paid on this occasion but believe me you will have paid!

Roy Lambert