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Thread Delphi 10.1 Berlin Starter Edition - $0.00.
Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:55 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Raul


>I personally think that ship has already sailed. IMHO they would need to
>make mobile dev pack and server side (datasnap) cheap/affordable to get
>new people.

Sailed and sunk ages ago.

>However I'm not convinced this would be a sustainable business model for
>them.
>
>I'm not even sure what this promo is for - is it to get new people or to
>bring existing ones (ones with D2006/2007 or some earlier XE) up to new
>version so they might then move to pro in the future again after seeing
>this version in action !?

This could only begin to work if those people didn't already use databases. If that's the case why would they need to move to a more expensive edition?

Roy
Thu, Aug 25 2016 1:58 PMPermanent Link

Trinione

>I personally think that ship has already sailed. IMHO they would need to
>make mobile dev pack and server side (datasnap) cheap/affordable to get
>new people.

>>>Sailed and sunk ages ago.

I really don't think so though. If one is looking at North America as the only market then Delphi is in trouble. However, Delphi/Lazarus/Object Pascal is popular in other countries around the world. As I scourer the Internet I see many bemoaning the excessive price of Delphi, yet I see many returning to Delphi or wishing they could with a reasonable price.

However, that there are other languages abound is a fact of life. But, no other language has such a high 'return to' rate. Developers leave and tend to find their way back.

The confusion and frustration is that Delphi is to Pascal what Jel-O is to gelatin. So, people think that when Delphi fails, Pascal/Object Pascal go with it.

Anyway, once Tim gets EWB modules going with Lazarus I don't see much need for me to be disappointed with Delphi the product anymore as it won't be a factor.
Thu, Aug 25 2016 4:21 PMPermanent Link

erickengelke

Roy Lambert wrote:

>>I personally think that ship has already sailed. IMHO they would need to
>>make mobile dev pack and server side (datasnap) cheap/affordable to get
>>new people.
>
>Sailed and sunk ages ago.

The big push of late was for mobile, but as I show in my book, you can do native mobile apps with EWB, and they are more reliable IMHO because new versions of the OS don't break them like it tends to do for Delphi.


>However I'm not convinced this would be a sustainable business model for
>them.

I only buy the Pro license, about $1k a year.  It's a little bit high, but tolerable.  And then I use Mormot for database connectivity as its free and fast.

The price of EWB is fair, I have no problem justifying it, in fact it's a bargain.  

I'm moving away from PHP to Mormot+Delphi to support EWB on the server end.  It's faster and the strong language typing is preferable.  Just today I had two misspelt PHP variables that were a PITA to find.

Erick
Thu, Aug 25 2016 5:27 PMPermanent Link

Trinione

<<The big push of late was for mobile, but as I show in my book, you can do native mobile apps with EWB, and they are more reliable IMHO because new versions of the OS don't break them like it tends to do for Delphi.>>

'native mobile apps' - That confuses me. Isn't a native mobile app one done in Objective-C (iOS) and Java (Android)?


<< I only buy the Pro license, about $1k a year.  It's a little bit high, but tolerable.
The price of EWB is fair, I have no problem justifying it, in fact it's a bargain. >>

The price continues to be prohibitive to the vast majority of Delphi developers though.


<< I'm moving away from PHP to Mormot+Delphi to support EWB on the server end.  It's faster and the strong language typing is preferable.  Just today I had two misspelt PHP variables that were a PITA to find. >>

In a prior post someone said 'PITA' and I didn't understand. Now I do. SmileLooking forward to both the MySQL/PHP and the Mormot info in your upcoming book.
Thu, Aug 25 2016 10:14 PMPermanent Link

erickengelke

Trinione wrote:

<<The big push of late was for mobile, but as I show in my book, you can do native mobile apps with EWB, and they are more reliable IMHO because new versions of the OS don't break them like it tends to do for Delphi.>>

>'native mobile apps' - That confuses me. Isn't a native mobile app one done in Objective-C (iOS) and Java (Android)?

There is differences of opinion on this.  Delphi claims native apps because they are compiled to ARM code.

EWB's are Cordova (JavaScript+HTML), but they create native APKs and whatever the Apple iOS one is, as well as Blackberry, Win 10 mobile, Windows EXEs, OS/X executables, etc.  You run them like you would any other application on the platform.


<< I only buy the Pro license, about $1k a year.  It's a little bit high, but tolerable.
The price of EWB is fair, I have no problem justifying it, in fact it's a bargain. >>

> The price continues to be prohibitive to the vast majority of Delphi developers though.

See new free server options coming for WIn32/64 Linux32/64
http://synopse.info/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=21493#p21493


<< I'm moving away from PHP to Mormot+Delphi to support EWB on the server end.  It's faster and the strong language typing is preferable.  Just today I had two misspelt PHP variables that were a PITA to find. >>

>In a prior post someone said 'PITA' and I didn't understand. Now I do. Smile

LOL, All you needed was context.

> Looking forward to both the MySQL/PHP and the Mormot info in your upcoming book.

Good.

Erick
Fri, Aug 26 2016 3:17 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Trinione


>I really don't think so though. If one is looking at North America as the only market then Delphi is in trouble. However, Delphi/Lazarus/Object Pascal is popular in other countries around the world. As I scourer the Internet I see many bemoaning the excessive price of Delphi, yet I see many returning to Delphi or wishing they could with a reasonable price.

I was being very specific - I meant Delphi - Lazarus may well continue even if Delphi disappears. I've been messing with it for ages and the one thing it lacks in my opinion is the ability to add in packages without recompiling the whole IDE

>However, that there are other languages abound is a fact of life. But, no other language has such a high 'return to' rate. Developers leave and tend to find their way back.

Nice clean easy to learn syntax, high productivity in development, runs well, hated by big corporates - what's not to like and return to Smiley

Roy
Fri, Aug 26 2016 9:35 AMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

Avatar

Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

Roy,

<< I was being very specific - I meant Delphi - Lazarus may well continue even if Delphi disappears. I've been messing with it for ages and the one thing it lacks in my opinion is the ability to add in packages without recompiling the whole IDE >>

That, and the debugger needs some serious improvements.

Have you tried some of the latest Delphi versions ?  They *are* pretty decent now, and have a lot of cool stuff that they didn't before.  In fact, when I can stick to just the later versions and don't have to be backwards-compatible, I find that a majority of the stuff that used to be in a "utils" unit can just be axed in favor of something built-in.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Fri, Aug 26 2016 9:50 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Tim

>That, and the debugger needs some serious improvements.

I've been lucky - the bits of messing I've been doing in it haven't blown up in a major way.

>Have you tried some of the latest Delphi versions ? They *are* pretty decent now, and have a lot of cool stuff that they didn't before. In fact, when I can stick to just the later versions and don't have to be backwards-compatible, I find that a majority of the stuff that used to be in a "utils" unit can just be axed in favor of something built-in.

No I haven't for a simple reason - cost. I thought about it some time back and worked out just what it would cost me to upgrade Delphi and the few  commercial components I use and made an estimate of how much time I'd have to put into updating my homebrew stuff. If you don't need to write for multiple platforms, don't care about unicode, then I can't see any real benefit. Especially as a hobbyist.

I may just download the starter edition - the price is right Smiley- and have a look, but since virtually everything I've ever done with a computer in my career has involved some sort of database I'm not sure I can even see if its any good.

Roy
Fri, Aug 26 2016 11:27 AMPermanent Link

erickengelke

Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:


> That, and the debugger needs some serious improvements.

Agreed,  I compile and test in Windows, then compile in FPC after debugging.

Mind you, the Windows is currently shipped as non-ARC while the OS/X, iOS and Android are ARC, Linux will be ARC too.  I prefer not having ARC everyhere, but would like if I could compile to ARC for Windows to test/debug.




>Have you tried some of the latest Delphi versions ?  They *are* pretty decent now, and have a lot of cool stuff that >they didn't before.  In fact, when I can stick to just the later versions and don't have to be backwards-compatible, I >find that a majority of the stuff that used to be in a "utils" unit can just be axed in favor of something built-in.

Agreed,  I feel D7 was the best at one time, but D10 Berlin is a new height.  The intermediate ones between those were not as good.

Even for the upcoming Linux release, I think debugging will be easier in Delphi than FPC.

I've also shipped OS/X binaries for some projects.  It opened up whole new markets and lets me compete with bigger companies.
Fri, Aug 26 2016 3:17 PMPermanent Link

rbaroniunas

Baron Software

Avatar

I know that the product cost for Rad Studio is high but I have written numerous applications that have paid the bills by using this fantastic product.  Berlin is fast and the product just keeps getting better all the time.  Godzilla which will be released this year will finally have Linux Server support, I am not sure of the features but once again the tool is in one place.

The cost is one thing but Object Pascal is the other issue, a lot of young developers coming out from college are no longer using it but instead are using Java or C++ that is the reality.  I believe EMB is testing whether people will catch on and move to the professional package if they fall in love with Delphi but besides posting it on their web site they have to the message out to the general public, that is something they are not doing at the moment.

They should be driving that product in the colleges to see whether it will catch on again.

One final note is that Lazarus is ok and does allow me to quickly build applications but you cannot compare the 2 products.  Lazarus is open source and has improvements made when the team decides to do it while Rad Studio is updated to make money.  In theory open source means I can modify anything I need to make it work but you have to have the time to do that.  A vast amount of people want to install and start working.

If you have made your decision on whatever software tool you wish to work with that is fine but do remember there are always different shops for all folks.
Richard Baroniunas
Software Developer
Richard@Baronsoftware.com
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