Icon View Thread

The following is the text of the current message along with any replies.
Messages 1 to 10 of 39 total
Thread EWB integration with other tools !
Mon, Oct 10 2016 5:32 AMPermanent Link

kamran

Hi

The aim is to produce professional GOOD LOOKING and DATA CAPABLE websites.

Thats what every customer I speak to wants.

I can see the power of EWB to handle the data side of things etc.

I also know its an open ended question with personal choices etc. but;

What other tools can be used along side EWB to end up with the types of websites you see everywhere these days? In particular for interface design, color schemes etc.

I know these are standalone in there own right but I am particularly interested ONLY in the ones that will work well with EWB.

Some of the names I have come across are:

1. Embarcadero HTML builder
2. Adobe DreamWeaver
3. WordPress designed templates

and the list goes on...

4. So what tools works well with EWB, or can work well,  I wonder ?

5. Is there any need for such tools?
Perhaps EWB does everything, and I have not discovered yet how to do it yet !


kind regards

Kamran
Mon, Oct 10 2016 5:45 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

kamran wrote:

> 5. Is there any need for such tools?
> Perhaps EWB does everything, and I have not discovered yet how to do it yet !

The key here is in your requirement - data capable websites. Web Builder is a very good single page application development tool. You could embed it in another "ordinary" page, but it is better when you are doing everything self-contained. So our web pages are using WordPress, and our shop, on a separate server as it happens, is a pure Web Builder application that never leaves the page.

So if you are wanting a complete web site EWB could sort of do it, but is probably not the right tool - it won't work well with search engines for example. But that doesn't stop it being a very good tool, and you can use any of your CSS design tools to come up with a design and have EWB application look identical. You'd have to echo them rather than import something, but with support for themes you can just build with a different look and off you go.

--

Matthew Jones
Mon, Oct 10 2016 8:44 PMPermanent Link

erickengelke

kamran wrote:
>The aim is to produce professional GOOD LOOKING and DATA CAPABLE websites.
>
>Thats what every customer I speak to wants.
>
>I can see the power of EWB to handle the data side of things etc.

EWB can produce attractive web sites.  People have been enthusiastic about all sorts of web sites I have made with it.  But like with anything, there is a learning curve to producing nice sites with any product.

> What other tools can be used along side EWB to end up with the types of websites you see everywhere
> these days? In particular for interface design, color schemes etc.

EWB is all you need.  Look at my web site: www.erickengelke.com for examples on using it with web graphics (google graphs), rich text editors, OAuth2 authentication and others.  And I'll take this opportunity to shamelessly
pitch my 300 page book, Using Elevate Web Builder, available on Amazon.  Seriously, it's filled with topics on
how to do all sorts of great things with EWB, and most of it is intermediate to advanced topics.

> Some of the names I have come across are:

> 1. Embarcadero HTML builder

I wrote a book about that too.  It was an older way of producing web sites.

For my first year with EWB I used HTML5 Builder to do the database backend
for EWB, ie. non-visual web backend.  In the last few months I've moved away from it.
Emb. has almost stopped supporting it.  Sad, really.

> 2. Adobe DreamWeaver

You don't need this, you can do everything GUI-ish in EWB.

> 3. WordPress designed templates

> 5. Is there any need for such tools?
> Perhaps EWB does everything, and I have not discovered yet how to do it yet !

EWB handles most web app creation nicely.  It can do both WYSIWYG web and dynamic web pages.

Where the jury is out, IMHO, is the list of best database backends to use with it.  My book presented solutions in PHP and Delphi+Mormot..  Some others use REM Objects, or Elevate's own DB products, or something else.
Of course, it's compatible with all of the above with some tinkering, so you are free to chose from a variety of
options or something entirely different than the rest of us have tried.

Erick
Tue, Oct 11 2016 12:49 PMPermanent Link

rbaroniunas

Baron Software

Avatar

Having work with these tools for years with the exception of EWB (still learning) I do have some comments after Eric's.

1. Dreamweaver is still one of the top web site design tools available on the market.  You can build web sites using HMTL, JavaScript, Java, PHP, etc. using it.  The biggest issue is that they went to a subscription model which stinks in cost.   Other web site design tools are not as robust as DM but some other packages tend to use pre-built tools that you can build sites but the code is not available.  The sites can be used on Linux or Windows.

2. Embarcadero HTML builder 5 - one of the most baffling products offered by EMB which came out full force but was barely supported with webinars or documentation.  When I spoke to a few EMB product folks about it they tended to say it wasn't really for web sites but more for smart phone designs.  There is a webinar on youtube you can view to see if it fits.  Similar to RadPHP product which was a pain to work with.  Once again it is suppose to support Linux or Windows since it produces PHP.

3. WordPress designed templates that you can purchase from various designers but make sure you watch what you do because a lot of times putting images or changing the layout will have a bad outcome.  Work with the internal support that comes with the template and you should be able to get something working in a short period of time.  Tons of designs on monstertemplates.com and plug-ins that do things you may need for free.  You must secure the WP web site otherwise you can easily get hacked, you have to check with the web hosting firm that they support WP as well, it tends to be a resource hog if it bloats.  Works on Linux and Windows.

4. EWB - I am still a newbie using the product, I was able to get a few internal things done on Linux and Windows and as Eric indicates, EWB could be a pretty web site.  I just wish there were a listing of web sites done by folks so they could be shown to the general public but that hasn't happen (as far as I know) as well as the free tools that may occur down the road if folks have the time.

Depending on your budget and time, my suggestion is not to waste your time on HTML 5 Builder, if you are looking to get something done fairly fast WP Templates is a quick and dirty way of getting a pretty web site done in a few hours, you purchase and modify a few fields as well as inserting content.

If you have more time then EWB would be the better solution.
Richard Baroniunas
Software Developer and DBA
Richard@Baronsoftware.com
Tue, Oct 11 2016 1:27 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

Avatar

Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

kamran,

<< The aim is to produce professional GOOD LOOKING and DATA CAPABLE websites. >>

EWB isn't really targeted at building web *sites*.  It's more for web *applications* that sit behind a login: support portals, LOB applications, etc.  These types of applications act more like traditional desktop applications than multi-page web sites.

Our goal is to make EWB capable of producing web sites *also*, but that's still in the works.  What you would end up with is a back-end in Object Pascal script that could handle processing/data/content for the front-end, and the front-end would be coded similarly to what EWB does today, but only at a UI element level (like HTML is normally handled).  In other words, you wouldn't have controls/components like you do now, just elements.  It would be similar to how the control interface editor works.  In addition, EWB could "wrap" existing HTML pages on the client so that you could "take control" of a page with more sane layout management functionality than what CSS offers. This type of design would keep the client-side JS size down considerably (~150-200k for the entire site) while still allowing for the type of functionality one would want in a web site.

<< What other tools can be used along side EWB to end up with the types of websites you see everywhere these days? In particular for interface design, color schemes etc. >>

To modify the way that EWB looks, you simply need to modify the control interfaces that are provided with EWB.  It's really that simple.  Read here in the manual for more information:

http://www.elevatesoft.com/manual?action=viewtopic&id=ewb2&topic=Control_Interfaces

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Tue, Oct 11 2016 3:58 PMPermanent Link

Richard Mace

kamran wrote:

<< The aim is to produce professional GOOD LOOKING and DATA CAPABLE websites.

Hi,

Interestingly enough, when I purchased EWB I had in mind to do Web applications, however, I found myself in a position fairly quickly, where I needed to create a couple of websites. I opted for EWB as I wanted to test how well EWB could create web sites and I also have very limited knowledge of HTML and CSS and it made sense, in my head at least, for me to try in pascal.

I must admit, I have been pleasantly surprised at how well EWB has worked out for doing web sites. I know that there is the search engine side of things to consider, however, I was quite surprised when Google actually read the JavaScrypt and indexed that!

Anyway, for those interested, the 2 sites that I have currently done in EWB, and that are still being worked on weekly (as I learn more about EWB) are:

www.brightwebdesign.co.uk and
www.btarchitect.co.uk

Richard
Tue, Oct 11 2016 5:15 PMPermanent Link

Trinione

Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:
<< Our goal is to make EWB capable of producing web sites *also*, but that's still in the works.  What you would end up with is a back-end in Object Pascal script that could handle processing/data/content for the front-end, and the front-end would be coded similarly to what EWB does today, but only at a UI element level (like HTML is normally handled).  In other words, you wouldn't have controls/components like you do now, just elements.  It would be similar to how the control interface editor works.  In addition, EWB could "wrap" existing HTML pages on the client so that you could "take control" of a page with more sane layout management functionality than what CSS offers. This type of design would keep the client-side JS size down considerably (~150-200k for the entire site) while still allowing for the type of functionality one would want in a web site.
>>

Tim:
This is a highly desirable and anticipated goal. EWB's Page Layout is phenomenal. A few questions:

(1)  Am I to understand that EWB/Object Pascal would be used to control non-EWB controls/components? Such as UI elements found in available frontend UI frameworks?

(2) This is major, as it would really open up EWB as a developer tool. Is it a phenomenal amount of work for this change? I guess what I am getting at is a Timeframe for this goal to be a reality.

Very exciting!
Wed, Oct 12 2016 3:13 AMPermanent Link

kamran

Hi

1. Thank you *very much* to everyone for your detailed input. I found everyone's  comments very helpful.
I am so happy that I asked the question. Hopefully others have benefited too.

2. I would agree with Richard Baroniunas; that we should have a "Gallery" of EWB produced websites so that everyone can see (both us and our customers) as to what is possible with EWB.
Perhaps just a simple *dedicated* page of links of websites produced by EWB developers on Tim's website
( if Tim can agree to it and thinks its a good idea!)

3. The more I use EWB the more I like it.
It feels like I have discovered another "Delphi".

best regards

Kamran
Wed, Oct 12 2016 4:32 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

rbaroniunas wrote:

> 1. Dreamweaver is still one of the top web site design tools available on the market. [snip] The biggest issue is that they went to a subscription model which stinks in cost.

Just to pick up on the cost, I personally think it is a marvellous value. I used to sit trying to work out how to afford one of the tools for the money they were asking, and never managed to justify it. Then they made it a cheap subscription, and I have thousands of dollars worth for less than one over two years. I don't use them all the time, but having DreamWeaver, and Fireworks (never found anything as good), and Acrobat (OCR's our scanned documents brilliantly, allows me to fix all sorts of PDF things), and ...
As a WebBuilder user, I use it for images and the like.


> 4. EWB - [snip]  I just wish there were a listing of web sites done by folks so they could be shown to the general public but that hasn't happen (as far as I know) as well as the free tools that may occur down the road if folks have the time.

I am working on a big EWB application at the moment, and hope that it will be available in public demo once released. It shows a lot of the available power IMO.


--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Oct 12 2016 4:35 AMPermanent Link

Mark Brooks

Slikware

Avatar

Chipping in here.

I've been using EWB since the very early days. Most of my work has involved the creation of "portals" that surface and manipulate information from back-end data sources, typically accessible by a secure REST API. A portal will typically require the user to login and will then present a number of views, populated with data and capabilities based on the user's credentials.

As such, most of my EWB "web apps" look just like multi-page websites, but very much data-driven and user-credentials-driven. I have to say that it's an exceptional tool for this type of work.

To me, the key has been to ensure that each view within the app is driven off the URL. This makes the app feel much more "website-like" for the user and also supports browser back and forward functionality. Recent enhancements to EWB 2 (the Address & Anchor functionality in particular) have made this a snip to implement, whilst the fantastic layout capabilities make responsive designs simple. Subtle animations can also be used for that modern finishing touch.

The missing piece, for my part, is the ability to create my back-end without having to resort to Embarcadero (or .NET and SQL). I want to be able to create my own custom REST API, connected to ElevateDB, all using EWB (or part thereof). Combining this with EWB hosting changes the landscape yet again in my opinion.

In summary, awesome product, awesome support ............. hopefully awesome future!

Mark
Page 1 of 4Next Page
Jump to Page:  1 2 3 4
Image