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DBISAM 3 or 4 |
Mon, Jun 22 2009 5:13 PM | Permanent Link |
"Rita" | "Tim Young [Elevate Software]" <timyoung@elevatesoft.com> wrote in message news:7E1C1B89-BD09-438B-9D2F-6AFB532A813E@news.elevatesoft.com... > If you don't like the performance or don't feel that it is acceptable, > then you're free to use another product that is more to your liking. Just another one of them back door guys promoting other products I guess ? Rita |
Mon, Jun 22 2009 5:41 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Rita,
<< Just another one of them back door guys promoting other products I guess ? >> I don't know, but there's a heck of a lot more to a product than inserting 100,000+ rows quickly, and I don't really care to spend a lot of time explaining that again. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Mon, Jun 22 2009 5:52 PM | Permanent Link |
Stan | "Tim Young [Elevate Software]" wrote:
> With all due respect, I have neither the time or the patience to get into a > long discussion of this benchmark with you right now, I am sorry that you already feel that way Tim. Our discussion has lasted only by one message. You made some good suggestions what might affect to ElevateDB performance, and I tried those settings. >nor do I feel that I need to justify the performance of EDB to you. I was only looking for the possible causes that could affect to DBISAM/ElevateDb performance. I told earlier and I am saying it again that my intention was not to offend any of your products. We just have had strange slowdowns with current DBISAM applications, sought several tips from the newsgroups. And then found that benchmark code from Binaries group. We had had talks about amybe upgrading to ElevateDB. Newly re-written code maybe would make the occasional bottlenecks to go away. Then we run those tests both with the old engine and then with the new one. Of course the test did not bring any solution to our current slow downs, but the results made me wonder why there had been almost no discussions about those results. Then I found myself participating to this "DBISAM 3 or 4" thread. And now it looks like this discussion turned too severe, and was closed from the vendor's side. I just wonder if all DB Engine performance related questions have been banned from everyone, or is it this time me only > because I knew that it would result in such a response. I am truly sorry if I did say something offending. I just tested the improvements you told, and then reported the resulting numbers back. > If you don't like the performance or don't feel that it is acceptable, then you're > free to use another product that is more to your liking. I know that DBISAM/ElevateDB are important to you and your business. Everyone wants to protect their living. But you also should realise that I have not invented these performance questions myself. They come from our customers, our DB apps having strange slow downs. Some simply looking queries seem to take too long, no matter how you optimize them etc. My intention with that easily repeatable benchmark was only to find some simple measurements. And common expressions how one could talk about these numbers and matters. Everyone has to solve problems within their applications in some way. Now it looks like this road is closed, blocked, and one has to continue looking either something else or somewhere else. At least I got some response. I looks like also some others have had the these kind of questions in their mind earlier. Just now it was not good time to talk about them. I wonder if there will ever be good time for them. Thanks for everyone participating to this thread. Stan |
Mon, Jun 22 2009 7:06 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Stan,
<< I was only looking for the possible causes that could affect to DBISAM/ElevateDb performance. I told earlier and I am saying it again that my intention was not to offend any of your products. We just have had strange slowdowns with current DBISAM applications, sought several tips from the newsgroups. And then found that benchmark code from Binaries group. >> And what did you possibly expect to glean from the benchmark regarding your issue ? Furthermore, why didn't you just email us or ask specifically for support on your issue instead of going on about some very old benchmark ? This was your first post on this issue: "I just mean that old 3.x version seem to beat those new flag ships in benchamrk tests. I especially hate to see NexusDB to beat all these "our" database versions in speed." That sure doesn't sound like a support issue to me. I let it go on for a while, but as soon as it starts resulting in me being forced to discuss a bulk insert benchmark instead of doing something productive, then it's over. If you have a specific support issue, then post it or send us an email at support@elevatesoft.com and we'll be happy to help you out. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Mon, Jun 22 2009 10:06 PM | Permanent Link |
"Robert" | "Tim Young [Elevate Software]" <timyoung@elevatesoft.com> wrote in message news:A7831A81-0A06-4EBD-98BC-664AEB63CDAC@news.elevatesoft.com... > > "I just mean that old 3.x version seem to beat those new flag ships in > benchamrk tests. I especially hate to see > NexusDB to beat all these "our" database versions in speed." > > That sure doesn't sound like a support issue to me. It's not up to you, I think, to define what is or is not a valid support issue. All of us DBISAM users have to justify why we use DBISAM instead of one of the "big ones". If somebody is 1) considering an upgrade, never a trivial issue and 2) concerned about speed and 3) finds out that - rightly or wrongly - his tests indicate that the new product is slower than the old one, or the competition, then he has a perfect right to be concerned. After all he has to explain to his company why he wants to spend time and money upgrading to EDB instead of Nexus. I remember at least one other issue in which you threw a tantrum at me instead of addressing the issue. I think you need to be careful with that temper business. This is not a personality or feelings thing. We are in business, OK? And furthermore, in the software busines. If we of all people can't address issues with logic instead of feelings, we have a problem. > > I let it go on for a while, but as soon as it starts resulting in me being > forced to discuss a bulk insert benchmark instead of doing something > productive, then it's over. Why is it over? What if Stan and I wanted to continue and discuss this issue further? What if other users had good insights? That is what a newsgroup is for. Robert |
Tue, Jun 23 2009 3:14 AM | Permanent Link |
"Rita" | "Robert" <ngsemail2005withoutthis@yahoo.com.ar> wrote in message news:CA7963CD-7C6A-4ED8-A1CB-DE12312EA686@news.elevatesoft.com... > > > I remember at least one other issue in which you threw a tantrum at me > instead of addressing the issue. I think you need to be careful with that > temper business. This is not a personality or feelings thing. We are in > business, OK? And furthermore, in the software busines. If we of all > people can't address issues with logic instead of feelings, we have a > problem. > I think you have been working with the courts so much you are sounding like a judge Rita |
Tue, Jun 23 2009 4:48 AM | Permanent Link |
Stan | "Rita" wrote:
>I think you have been working with the courts so much you >are sounding like a judge While Tim has closed the further conversation I do not want to continue this thread too long. Yet while Robert was willing to speak up for my thoughts, I also want to put up a few words to comment his sayings as I see there quite similar thoughts that we have had in our minds. "Robert" wrote: > After all he has to explain to his company why he wants to spend time and money > upgrading to EDB instead of Nexus. Occasional slow downs was our original problem. To clear this thing, we currently have *no plans* going or upgrading especially to Nexus. That engine name just happened to be among in that benchmark test, and it was able to run without needing any extra DLL-files like Advantage, and BDE files I already had. I do not see how that benchmark was "very old benchmark" as I could see inside the sources what its does, and I re-compiled it yesterday. That benchmark also seems to be the only one anyone has. I will gladly run any other benchmarks there might be. Of course we might have to move elsewhere if numerical facts and also feelings say you have to go there. Personal feelings aren't very good right now. But I also understand Elevate's thoughts and position with this matter. Even if you have good references (=sources) to follow, no big improvements can appear overnight, it may take months. I would gladly have given a full year or even more, if any of my performance concerns had got any response. The added new engine features are nice, but it alone can not compensate the pure performance needs. It may be after all very relatively small changes that would make the difference. That means if there is any need for that in the first hand. It _may be_ that DBISAM/ElevateDB really beats those other engines in multi user environment, hands down. But those kind of test measurements will now never appear, at least not within this closed thread. If we have to start using some other database with some of our installations, it may be something else than any of the engines mentioned in this thread. That's why I thought I'll add a few more engines to the benchmark, to get ourselves yet more numbers to think about. "Robert" wrote: > If we of all people can't address issues with logic instead of feelings, > we have a problem. For Tim I have to say that I also have my own temper, and it is not always so good. I have not directly shouted to clients, but I have sometimes been a way more short worded and impatient than necessary. Also English is not my native, and I may have to use dictionary when trying to find more "colorful" expressions. I now better see my opening message at the original humorous and cheerfuls thread situation. It was not good opening, when you look it against the latter thread development, so my apologies for that. Stan |
Tue, Jun 23 2009 9:01 AM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Robert,
<< It's not up to you, I think, to define what is or is not a valid support issue. >> These are our newsgroups and we pay for them, and I manage the support requests, so yes, it *is* up to me. This thread is done. I will not discuss these types of benchmarks anymore because they are misleading and provide only a small slice of information about a product. If Stan has a performance issue, he can post a support request at any time. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Mon, Jul 6 2009 2:05 AM | Permanent Link |
Rob | No. We customers pay for them.
I have a support question. Why is EDB insert speed so slow? How can it be sped up to match the competition? A long paying customer, Rob "Tim Young [Elevate Software]" wrote: These are our newsgroups and we pay for them, and I manage the support requests, so yes, it *is* up to me. This thread is done. I will not discuss these types of benchmarks anymore because they are misleading and provide only a small slice of information about a product. If Stan has a performance issue, he can post a support request at any time. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Mon, Jul 6 2009 4:12 AM | Permanent Link |
Roy Lambert NLH Associates Team Elevate | Rob
Some suggestions 1. If this is a genuine support question start a new thread - Tim has already said he won't respond to this one 2. Quote specific examples where the speed is to slow for your needs (note I do not say where its slower than other db engines) 3. Try to avoid direct confrontational statements unless all you are looking for is an argument Finally, a question back: <<Why is EDB insert speed so slow? How can it be sped up to match the competition?>> How slow? what competition? Have you developed benchmarks to prove this assertion for each of the engines? Roy Lambert [Team Elevate] Also a long paying customer (sine 2001 I think) |
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