Stephan

The main thing here is not a good database management software at first but
an excellent database engine and after that the first one. Tim is
concentrating his efforts in doing this and creating relationships with
drag/drop facilities is low priority in the list.

Eduardo

Stephan,

<< So you are saying, I should write down all field properties on paper,
remove that column and then recreate it?  >>

No, you do what I stated:

1) Select the column you want to alter
2) Click on the delete button
3) Modify the column properties as desired
4) Click on the add button
5) Move the column to the desired position in the table

BTW, the reason for this is that SQL 2003 standard does not provide for
altering the type of a column, and EDB was written closely to the SQL 2003
specification for the initial and subsequent releases.  I've already
publicly stated several times here on the newsgroups that this particular
issue will be relaxed in a future release.

<< You are going back to stone-age with EDB...
Today I can expect from a database system that it provides a tool by which I
can do any structure definitions on screen in a comfortable way. But EDBMgr
is not only a hard to use software, it also lacks of such simple basic tasks
like renaming columns or modifying text field lengths. These are everyday
tasks for a database programmer. Others have stated here in this group that
you seem to have forgotten the developers (especially because EDBMgr is
an uncomfortable tool), and this is one more proof. Your company has DBIsam
which provides such features (although DBSys is not what I consider as an
easy-to-use software) and now with EDBMgr you are going some more steps
back.  A new UI does not compensate missing basic features. Your admittedly
fast service and fast
bug fixing does not compensate missing basic features and it does not
compensate some wrong design details. >>

You know, I've basically had it with your rants like this.  I've had to
listen to this shit from you for a solid two weeks now here and via email.
Contact Sam at sales@elevatesoft.com and tell her that you need a refund.
She will issue you a check today, and you can go about your business
elsewhere.  If EDB is so bad, you should have no problem finding a
replacement that does everything that it does for the $129 that it cost you.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Hi Tim,

> You know, I've basically had it with your rants like this.  I've had to
> listen to this shit from you for a solid two weeks now here and via email.
> Contact Sam at sales@elevatesoft.com and tell her that you need a refund.
> She will issue you a check today, and you can go about your business
> elsewhere.  If EDB is so bad, you should have no problem finding a
> replacement that does everything that it does for the $129 that it cost
> you.

I felt compelled to add my opinon to this tread. First, I totally agree with
you, but try to refrain from such statements and word use. I know, it is
sometimes very difficult, but be the better person. I have been using DBISAM
from version 2 so I have followed this newsgroup for quite some time and
therefore know the dedication, quality and support you to put into DBISAM
and EDB. But, newer or potential customers might take this kind of respone
the wrong way. Second, the fact that you offer him a refund is first class
and it is something he won't find with MS for example. Third, I am still
learning how to do things the EDB way as oppose to the DBISAM way, but the
more I am using it, the more I am beginning to appreciate what you have
accomplished. Once again I know that this is the DB for me. The
documentation is also very good. Thank you very much. I am a satisfied
customer.

Fons Neelen
The Netherlands, Europe

Fons,

<< I felt compelled to add my opinon to this tread. First, I totally agree
with you, but try to refrain from such
statements and word use. I know, it is sometimes very difficult, but be the
better person. >>

I have been the better person for the entire time he's been doing this.  I
have warned him repeatedly about using our support avenues as a place to
rant about the quality of EDB and denigrate the work that I've put into it,
and he promised that he would stop.  Well, he didn't stop and, frankly, I'm
not about to continue to be the target of his abuse.  We're all adults here,
and I don't think that using the word "shit" is going to make anyone blush.
In this case, it was the appropriate word because that is the proper
description of what has been going on.   He has been wasting my time by
forcing me to respond to long tirades that have nothing to do with the
issues that he has reported.

Let me be perfectly clear so that everyone understands.  We will not
tolerate anyone using our email and newsgroup support avenues for rants
about some perceived injustice that they have served at the hands of one of
our products.  If you don't like the product, for whatever reason, then you
have two options:

1) You can contact us via the provided support avenues, and politely ask for
clarification regarding the issue(s) you are having and get an official
response from us regarding the issue, such as whether it is a bug, when it
will be fixed, etc.

2) You can return the product for a refund and go about your business
elsewhere.  If you don't like the product, then we don't want your money.

<< I have been using DBISAM from version 2 so I have followed this newsgroup
for quite some time and therefore know the dedication, quality and support
you to put into DBISAM and EDB. But, newer or potential customers might take
this kind of respone the wrong way. >>

These newsgroups are present in total since their inception and are
searchable from our web site.  If someone wants a record of how we treat our
customers and whether this is an unusual situation, they can find out very
easily.  If they do so, they will find that this is an exception and that if
they treat us with respect that they can expect the same in kind.

<< Second, the fact that you offer him a refund is first class and it is
something he won't find with MS for example. Third, I am still learning how
to do things the EDB way as oppose to the DBISAM way, but the more I am
using it, the more I am beginning to appreciate what you have accomplished.
Once again I know that this is the DB for me. The documentation is also very
good. Thank you very much. I am a satisfied customer. >>

Thank you for the kind words.  However, you are basically proving my point
for me.  You have always been polite and respectful when you contact us for
support or deal with other customers on these newsgroups.  You express your
needs in a clear, concise manner that allows us to get on with the business
of providing a solution for you.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

"perceived injustice that they have served"

That should be "suffered".

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Sometimes you just have to not just say go away...  you have to say go away
NOW!

I don't think anyone, including Tim, disagree that the (FREE) manager needs
some
filling out of features to help with the (SIMPLE) things done day to day by
a developer.

I just think that there's a point between gentle inquisition and suggestions
for improvement
and being an annoyance.

I think where Tim's spending his time, is very important and necessary.
When he's able
to spare a couple hours a day on the manager (21 out of 24, I'm sure, lol),
awsome and
eagerly awaited.  But like Roy and others echoed, I want a rock solid base
to build the
fluff around (even if the fluff is necessary).

Lance




"Tim Young [Elevate Software]" <timyoung@elevatesoft.com> wrote in message
news:D1DFF39A-3654-47BC-8755-11C6F101408B@news.elevatesoft.com...
> Stephan,
>
> << So you are saying, I should write down all field properties on paper,
> remove that column and then recreate it?  >>
>
> No, you do what I stated:
>
> 1) Select the column you want to alter
> 2) Click on the delete button
> 3) Modify the column properties as desired
> 4) Click on the add button
> 5) Move the column to the desired position in the table
>
> BTW, the reason for this is that SQL 2003 standard does not provide for
> altering the type of a column, and EDB was written closely to the SQL 2003
> specification for the initial and subsequent releases.  I've already
> publicly stated several times here on the newsgroups that this particular
> issue will be relaxed in a future release.
>
> << You are going back to stone-age with EDB...
> Today I can expect from a database system that it provides a tool by which
> I can do any structure definitions on screen in a comfortable way. But
> EDBMgr is not only a hard to use software, it also lacks of such simple
> basic tasks like renaming columns or modifying text field lengths. These
> are everyday tasks for a database programmer. Others have stated here in
> this group that you seem to have forgotten the developers (especially
> because EDBMgr is
> an uncomfortable tool), and this is one more proof. Your company has
> DBIsam which provides such features (although DBSys is not what I consider
> as an easy-to-use software) and now with EDBMgr you are going some more
> steps back.  A new UI does not compensate missing basic features. Your
> admittedly fast service and fast
> bug fixing does not compensate missing basic features and it does not
> compensate some wrong design details. >>
>
> You know, I've basically had it with your rants like this.  I've had to
> listen to this shit from you for a solid two weeks now here and via email.
> Contact Sam at sales@elevatesoft.com and tell her that you need a refund.
> She will issue you a check today, and you can go about your business
> elsewhere.  If EDB is so bad, you should have no problem finding a
> replacement that does everything that it does for the $129 that it cost
> you.
>
> --
> Tim Young
> Elevate Software
> www.elevatesoft.com
>

Hi Tim,

> I have been the better person for the entire time he's been doing this.

You're right. You have been.

> Let me be perfectly clear so that everyone understands.  We will not
> tolerate anyone using our email and newsgroup support avenues for rants
> about some perceived injustice that they have suffered at the hands of one
> of our products.

Totally agree.

> These newsgroups are present in total since their inception and are
> searchable from our web site.  If someone wants a record of how we treat
> our customers and whether this is an unusual situation, they can find out
> very easily.  If they do so, they will find that this is an exception and
> that if they treat us with respect that they can expect the same in kind.

Until you start archiving     The DBISAM newsgroup is getting big - you
said so yourself   But all jokes aside, it will be clear that this is
indeed an exception.

> Thank you for the kind words.  However, you are basically proving my point
> for me.  You have always been polite and respectful when you contact us
> for support or deal with other customers on these newsgroups.  You express
> your needs in a clear, concise manner that allows us to get on with the
> business of providing a solution for you.

Thanks. And with me most of the others in these newsgroup - unfortunately
there is always the rotten apple in the basket (translated straight from
Dutch, so I hope you know what I mean). Furthermore, the one thing we have
all in common in these newsgroups is that we develope software (for a living
or just hobby) and we all know you cannot expect to have perfect software
overnight - it takes times and you must priortize. So, the Engine needs to
be done first. The Manager comes later. Makes perfect sense.

Best regards,
Fons

Fons



>and we all know you cannot expect to have perfect software
>overnight - it takes times and you must priortize. So, the Engine needs to
>be done first. The Manager comes later. Makes perfect sense.

Wrong - all you have to do is pick the right night <vbg>

Roy Lambert

Tim,

Let it go and clear your mind.  I believe you have some priorities and you should focus on that.  I completely understand the way you are managing
things here and I respect that.  In fact, I believe you are on the right tract.

Regards,
Abdulaziz Jasser

<<In fact, I believe you are on the right tract.>>

Correction:

In fact, I believe you are on the right track.