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Thread Database.AutoTransactions := True observation
Thu, Nov 10 2016 10:07 PMPermanent Link

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Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:
<< No, no, a thousand times, no.  There is no way that *anything* EWB does will corrupt an EDB database table or cause it "lose an index". >>

I did not turn off the machine. I did not stop the server. I did not kill any process. I did not stop my app whilst I knew something was occurring. No DDL was happening. No backup.

The table had about 40 records to delete first and then insert 40 new records. That process took about 6 seconds for each record. However, though the UI returned rows were in fact still being inserted. Without knowing this initially, I logged off and then logged back into the app only to find missing records and thereafter discovering the primary index no longer existed.

<< Please do not post such statements without knowing the full details of what you're discussing. >>

Admittedly, I am not so brilliant as to know the full details of what I am discussing before I post and am exposing my ignorance of this product - and that is counterproductive to the forum.

I am merely a customer seeking to learn EWB to the best of my ability. I honestly thought I was being helpful.

My sincerest apologies.
Fri, Nov 11 2016 6:46 AMPermanent Link

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Walter Matte wrote:
<< Surely if you bring in a dataset into EWB with AutoTransaction = True and then go mass updating them in a loop to set a check box, then I would rethink what I was doing. >>

Thanks for pointing this out. It certainly did slow down the 'All' checkbox process just a tad and this explains why.

In this case it is far more work to create a grid manually. Without AutoTransactions works perfectly fine in this case.

My initial post was to alert others of the possible impact of latency as the table's primary index was lost in the process.
Fri, Nov 11 2016 1:18 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com


<< The table had about 40 records to delete first and then insert 40 new records. That process took about 6 seconds for each record. However, though the UI returned rows were in fact still being inserted. Without knowing this initially, I logged off and then logged back into the app only to find missing records and thereafter discovering the primary index no longer existed. >>

I'm sorry, but this simply cannot happen, period.  The EWB Web Server *never* issues DDL statements, so how could it possibly remove a primary key from a table, even accidentally ?

Furthermore, please explain to me how resetting a tab in the browser, or resetting the browser itself, is going to affect what is going on in the web server/database with respect to database updates ?  The *worst-case scenario* is that the updates stop prematurely when you kill the browser or browser tab.  That's it.  That's why web applications are so robust and durable - they are completely disconnected from, and ignorant of, where/when/how the data is retrieved or updated.

<< Admittedly, I am not so brilliant as to know the full details of what I am discussing before I post and am exposing my ignorance of this product - and that is counterproductive to the forum. >>

My objection is to the supposition, not asking a question or not knowing how something works.  Do not post something that implies such a horribly bad bug on the part of EWB/EDB without having *proof* that this is indeed what happened.  I know that you *think* that is what happened, but you need to be more sure than that when making such claims because they affect how potential customers view the product and introduce doubt about the product when none is warranted.

<< I am merely a customer seeking to learn EWB to the best of my ability. I honestly thought I was being helpful. >>

I know, and you're one of our best customers that promotes the product every chance you get.  But, you have to understand that I can't just kill this thread, because that looks suspicious, so I had to put that disclaimer up there in order to avoid any doubt/confusion when someone is doing a keyword search, etc.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Fri, Nov 11 2016 1:19 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com


<< My initial post was to alert others of the possible impact of latency as the table's primary index was lost in the process. >>

Please, please stop posting this.  You have no basis for this claim, and it is absolutely not true.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Fri, Nov 11 2016 3:09 PMPermanent Link

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<< Please, please stop posting this.  You have no basis for this claim, and it is absolutely not true. >>

Tim,
It could be that at a crucial time in writing to the database the table got corrupted due to the latency/interruption?
Fri, Nov 11 2016 3:35 PMPermanent Link

Trinione

<< The EWB Web Server *never* issues DDL statements, so how could it possibly remove a primary key from a table, even accidentally ? >>

You mentioned DDL in your earlier comment, I never said it was a possibility.


<<My objection is to the supposition, not asking a question or not knowing how something works.  Do not post something that implies such a horribly bad bug on the part of EWB/EDB without having *proof* that this is indeed what happened.  I know that you *think* that is what happened, but you need to be more sure than that when making such claims because they affect how potential customers view the product and introduce doubt about the product when none is warranted.>>

What proof can anyone have when something unexpectedly happens that they may not be able to reproduce? It happened. I posted it thinking it would be helpful to others whom may have experienced a similar situation and was wondering why.

Oh! I am now reading thru your response and realize you are telling me that I am lying. Sorry Tim. Not a claim. Not an idle thought. It occurred. I am in the middle of implementing a system, and then offline for a few weeks. However if I get some time in the coming weeks I shall see if I can recreate the situation and video record it as 'proof'! Smile
Tue, Nov 15 2016 1:57 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

<< It could be that at a crucial time in writing to the database the table got corrupted due to the latency/interruption?  >>

No, what you're describing could only happen if EDB was fundamentally broken as a multi-user database.  Even a multi-threading issue wouldn't remove a primary key from a table.  It just wouldn't happen because a normal update wouldn't even try to update the database catalog.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Tue, Nov 15 2016 2:02 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com


<< Oh! I am now reading thru your response and realize you are telling me that I am lying. Sorry Tim. Not a claim. Not an idle thought. It occurred. I am in the middle of implementing a system, and then offline for a few weeks. However if I get some time in the coming weeks I shall see if I can recreate the situation and video record it as 'proof'! Smile >>

I am absolutely *not* saying that you're lying.  I'm 100% sure that you indeed believe that what you saw happened exactly as you described it.  What I'm saying is that if you see something that seems completely absurd and hard to believe happening in a mature, well-tested product that is over 8 years old (EDB), then *don't post it here as fact*, especially if you *don't* understand how/why it occurred.  Send it to me via email, and we'll see what's going on before jumping to any conclusions that aren't warranted.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
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