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Thread Pinch Zoom
Tue, Nov 10 2015 11:43 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Frederick Chin wrote:

> without scrollbar support

Why not have scrollbar support? And perhaps I'd not do the grid on such
a small screen, but make each line separate or something. Or I might,
as Tim suggests, hack the HTML, but expecting an application that works
well on a big screen to just squeeze down and be usable on a small one
is not realistic. When I did mine, I set a 7" minimum for the "nice"
operation, and anything less would work but not be as nice an
experience.

Obviously your requirements may be different to mine.

--

Matthew Jones
Tue, Nov 10 2015 12:14 PMPermanent Link

Raul

Team Elevate Team Elevate

On 11/10/2015 10:41 AM, Frederick Chin wrote:
> Would an EWB application be suitable for a tablet then given that the web browser takes up screen space as well and the application cannot compress to fit? I don't see that happening if a form with lots of controls or a grid is included.

EWB application can adjust to the screen size just fine as long as you
use non-static layout.

Not sure if you've seen the samples but responsive layout one shows how
to adjust from desktop to small phone size:

http://www.elevatesoft.com:8081/responsive/responsive.html

It does require some upfront planning and design but is doable.

Raul
Tue, Nov 10 2015 12:37 PMPermanent Link

Raul

Team Elevate Team Elevate

On 11/10/2015 10:51 AM, Frederick Chin wrote:
> How would you display a form 800 pixels wide x 600 pixels high that contains a grid that extends almost to the top and bottom with four buttons in the top right inside a web browser within a smartphone with a 4" screen without scrollbar support or the ability to resize?

Idea here is to not fit into the 800x600 but to fill the screen and then
let layout adjust positions of controls.

Grid is already scrollable so that would fit Ok. Button on top right
would be the only issue - you have to simply move them to top (of grid)
- they can still be aligned to right side.

This type of setup works fine on something like iphone 5/5s for example.


Raul
Tue, Nov 10 2015 5:52 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

Frederick,

<< Would an EWB application be suitable for a tablet then given that the web browser takes up screen space as well and the application cannot compress to fit? >>

Of course EWB is suitable for a tablet/phone.  You just have to take into account your target screen size in advance.  Just letting the user pinch/zoom isn't going to cut it with a web *application* because you've got controls, etc. that need to be dealt with, and you should design your application in a way that the user can use the application *without* pinching/zooming.

Rule of thumb: never design an EWB application like you would a web *page*, which is primarily a static (or decorated) document whose primary purpose is to be *read*, not interacted with.  Design it like you would a native mobile/desktop application.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Tue, Nov 10 2015 6:00 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

Frederick,

<< How would you display a form 800 pixels wide x 600 pixels high that contains a grid that extends almost to the top and bottom with four buttons in the top right inside a web browser within a smartphone with a 4" screen without scrollbar support or the ability to resize? >>

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that you can't use scrollbars with EWB, but you can. In fact, you have a *lot* of different types of scrolling options: you can have the viewport scroll the application surface with native scrollbars (Application.Viewport.OverflowX/Y properties), you can have the surface itself use its own EWB-styled scrollbars (Application.Surface.ScrollBars), or you can have individual container panels inside of the application scroll (TScrollPanel.ScrollBars).  Of course, this doesn't include controls like grids, etc. that also have scrolling capabilities.

As for your actual question, the answer is: you wouldn't.  It's simple not a good idea to force the user to zoom in order to use your application, nor is it nice to make them constantly scroll around, if you can help it.  Trying to squeeze a desktop application interface directly on to a mobile phone is a recipe for failure.  You have to re-imagine the functionality with the smaller form factor in mind and use responsive design with scrolling, or simply split up the existing forms into smaller pieces that are accessible via different forms.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Wed, Nov 11 2015 1:08 PMPermanent Link

Douglas Lyman

Here is what I am looking for.  Take a user that uses the web app mostly on the desktop but wants occasional access from their iPad.  With EWB1, they could hold the iPad in landscape - so that the keyboard could be displayed with the full content of the app also displayed.  The app could be zoomed out to accommodate this.  This is important functionality that has been lost in EWB2.
Wed, Nov 11 2015 8:09 PMPermanent Link

Tim Young [Elevate Software]

Elevate Software, Inc.

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Email timyoung@elevatesoft.com

Doug,

<< Here is what I am looking for.  Take a user that uses the web app mostly on the desktop but wants occasional access from their iPad.  With EWB1, they could hold the iPad in landscape - so that the keyboard could be displayed with the full content of the app also displayed.  The app could be zoomed out to accommodate this.  This
is important functionality that has been lost in EWB2. >>

It was lost because EWB2 gained touch support.  In browsers, you can't have both:  you either let the browser do everything automatically via touch, or the application handles it.  There's no in-between.

With EWB2, you have to design your applications to work within the screen area of the smaller devices without zooming.

Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com
Thu, Nov 12 2015 11:49 AMPermanent Link

Douglas Lyman

<<It was lost because EWB2 gained touch support.  In browsers, you can't have both:  you either let the browser do everything automatically via touch, or the application handles it.  There's no in-between.

Any way to have this an application-level choice?
Fri, Nov 13 2015 3:56 AMPermanent Link

Frederick Chin

Tim,

/*
I'm not sure what gave you the impression that you can't use scrollbars with EWB, but you can. In fact, you have a *lot* of different types of scrolling options: you can have the viewport scroll the application surface with native scrollbars (Application.Viewport.OverflowX/Y properties), you can have the surface itself use its own EWB-styled scrollbars (Application.Surface.ScrollBars), or you can have individual container panels inside of the application scroll (TScrollPanel.ScrollBars).  Of course, this doesn't include controls like grids, etc. that also have scrolling capabilities.
*/

I was thinking about scrollbars that sprout when I resize the web browser's height and/or width as the EWB app becomes larger than the web browser's size.

I have taken note of suggestions to design according to the smaller device's target width and height. Essentially, if I want the app to run in both a desktop and tablet, I should target the tablet's screen dimensions.

Frederick
Fri, Nov 13 2015 4:00 AMPermanent Link

Frederick Chin

Raul,

/*
Idea here is to not fit into the 800x600 but to fill the screen and then
let layout adjust positions of controls.

Grid is already scrollable so that would fit Ok. Button on top right
would be the only issue - you have to simply move them to top (of grid)
- they can still be aligned to right side.

This type of setup works fine on something like iphone 5/5s for example.
*/

I think in reality, a typical desktop application would not be suitable for a smartphone in terms of design because of the number of controls present.

Take for example, the Cinedisk app that Tim has as a showcase. I don't see that being usable in a smartphone.

Frederick
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