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Thread Shop testing - last chance
Wed, Jul 16 2014 8:03 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Matthew

>Thanks, some food for thought there. The clicks might be being missed
>due to the delay I add to stop double clicks confusing people. We
>already have people who order two of something by mistake, and we can
>correct it in the current manual process. Not so with this, so I
>stopped the double-click.

I can see the double (or keep clicking until something happens) clicking being a problem especially on slow systems where it isn't immediately apparent that something has happened.

>Logout only really works if you are logged in, which you can't be if
>you didn't get the email. I know someone used a "made up" email, so
>they bounced, but real addresses should get through.

OK but then why show it if you're not logged in?

>Thanks for the feedback, I shall ponder some for a while. The "how to
>shop" does disappear, but I figure if you managed to add loads to the
>cart, you worked it out... I may be wrong to assume that.

I'd probably go even further - most of it isn't needed at all people are used to buying of the web these days.

However, a bigger concern has just raised its head. I thought I'd have a look at the how to shop box again before writing what I did. I clicked on the link in your earlier post. I didn't log in, I had logged out the last time, I use Maxthon3 browser with it set to clear cookies and browsing history on exit. Imagine my surprise when up pops the order I'd entered earlier. Click on logout and I'm taken to the login screen. Login and I'm given what seems to be an account screen (eg name etc), click logout and I'm taken back to the login screen WITH MY DETAILS THERE all I have to do to login is click!

I'm going to reboot the computer and see what happens. Back soon.

I don't know where you're storing cookies but something is definitely wrong. Either the cookies aren't going and the web site is picking them up each time I click on your link to the site or the site is simply keeping that order and showing it to everyone.

Whatever is going on I don't think it should be. Even picking up where you left off in placing an order, without any confirmation of who you are, is a bit iffy. I don't think there's anything contentious in your product line up but people may not want others to know what they're buying.

The fact that the transaction failed means that I haven't paid for the order (sorry got that wrong earlier) so it is trying to continue but the how worries me.

Roy Lambert
Wed, Jul 16 2014 8:48 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Roy Lambert wrote:

> However, a bigger concern has just raised its head. I thought I'd
> have a look at the how to shop box again before writing what I did. I
> clicked on the link in your earlier post. I didn't log in, I had
> logged out the last time, I use Maxthon3 browser with it set to clear
> cookies and browsing history on exit. Imagine my surprise when up
> pops the order I'd entered earlier. Click on logout and I'm taken to
> the login screen. Login and I'm given what seems to be an account
> screen (eg name etc), click logout and I'm taken back to the login
> screen WITH MY DETAILS THERE all I have to do to login is click!
>
> I'm going to reboot the computer and see what happens. Back soon.
>
> I don't know where you're storing cookies but something is definitely
> wrong. Either the cookies aren't going and the web site is picking
> them up each time I click on your link to the site or the site is
> simply keeping that order and showing it to everyone.
>
> Whatever is going on I don't think it should be. Even picking up
> where you left off in placing an order, without any confirmation of
> who you are, is a bit iffy. I don't think there's anything
> contentious in your product line up but people may not want others to
> know what they're buying.


The details are stored in the browser's localStorage, which is for this
sort of thing. The cart content is personal to you, so no one else can
see it. Heck, not even the shop until you place the order. All that
said, the name details are only stored if you ask for them to be so. If
they are being stored, then something else like a password manager is
doing that.

--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Jul 16 2014 8:48 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Matthew

>Yes, I don't like the speed the server takes to send the email. On my
>test system it is there in seconds. Will look at that again. But we
>decided that we wanted to have a validated email address before you can
>have the install code.

I thought the validation code was simply to register on the site.

<personal view>
My take would be:
1. give me your money
2. Thank you very much
3. OK I've got your credit card details
4. now before you download the software please register
5. if you don't want to then - thank you again for the money

I hate, loath and detest web site that force me into registering for a one or two off purchase. If its somewhere I'll keep on going back to then I'll register.
</personal view>

>Not sure how easy postcode lookups would really be - is the database
>free now?

Don't be silly.

>> Click on the Pay button I get a message - Please complete the details
>> - no idea what - eventually spotted the CVV was invalid - changed
>> from 159 to 789 and it worked. The indicator that a bit has been
>> wrongly filled in needs to stand out some more.
>
>Any three digits should be good in the test system.

They wern't

>> I then get transaction failed cos you don't exist (I assume you are
>> banaxiaportal). OK I can understand that but it would be nice to have
>> some indication as to what to do next rather than just stare at the
>> screen going whhhaaat?
>
>Aaargh! I changed the wrong thing recently. Now fixed. Please retry all
>orders! I was wondering why no one had managed to complete one.

You need to get in the right mindset - think BMW i8 <vbg>

Roy Lambert
Wed, Jul 16 2014 8:57 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Matthew


OK I can now get through to paying. But the flow is confusing. After clicking checkout and login you return to the ordering page briefly then the product list vanishes and is replaced by the credit card details stuff.

It too me a while to realise I was at that point because its so similar to the ordering page, especially with the product list flashing up then going away.

If you do have a credit card's protection screen whatsit poping up it isn't going to have that wonderful garble that's there now - looked like the hex for an image.

You've managed to hit one of my pet hatreds - invoice download - then display in browser.

Now I've managed to buy the stuff (how do I download the Ovalmaps please?) the order isn't displayed when I visit the url. I still would like to know where and how it is being stored in the event of the transaction not completing.

Roy Lambert
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:20 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Roy Lambert wrote:

> <personal view>
> My take would be:
> 1. give me your money
> 2. Thank you very much
> 3. OK I've got your credit card details
> 4. now before you download the software please register
> 5. if you don't want to then - thank you again for the money
>
> I hate, loath and detest web site that force me into registering for
> a one or two off purchase. If its somewhere I'll keep on going back
> to then I'll register.  </personal view>

Yes, I understand, but the expectation here is long term support of our
customers. We have people who bought the software ten years ago asking
for install codes, and we happily give them again.



> > Not sure how easy postcode lookups would really be - is the database
> > free now?
>
> Don't be silly.

Well, it was a serious question. There is apparently an open database
now, but it doesn't really help a lot for addresses. I can only find
expensive services, and they would eat the money on our sales.

--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:22 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Matthew

Again, this is my personal view, and I am not in step with the vast majority


>The details are stored in the browser's localStorage, which is for this
>sort of thing. The cart content is personal to you, so no one else can
>see it. Heck, not even the shop until you place the order.

I don't care. Someone else using my PC can see it - all I had to do was open the url. Even after rebooting my PC I could still see it. The keyword there is "my". You did not ask permission to persist data across browser shutdown / reopen nor computer reboot. If I close the browser because I've lost interest, realised I didn't need it, haven't worked out what to buy or from sheer capriciousness I do not expect it to remember anything.

In today's span, trojan and virus ridden environment I really do not like this sort of behaviour.

If you ask for permission and receive it then fine, otherwise no.

OK rant over.

>All that
>said, the name details are only stored if you ask for them to be so. If
>they are being stored, then something else like a password manager is
>doing that.

Well, I told Maxthon's password manager never to store passwords for this site and it usually does as its told so I'm not sure about that.

Roy Lambert
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:24 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Roy Lambert wrote:

> You've managed to hit one of my pet hatreds - invoice download - then
> display in browser.

Well, most customers want a nicely formatted invoice, so PDF is what we
give. How you choose to display it (or your browser does) is up to you!
I guess we could mark it for saving in the return info...


> Now I've managed to buy the stuff (how do I download the Ovalmaps
> please?) the order isn't displayed when I visit the url. I still
> would like to know where and how it is being stored in the event of
> the transaction not completing.

Due to the test mode, the ovalmap pads aren't actually shipped. 8-)
Not sure which URL you are talking about though. Or order. Or are you
talking about the cart contents - I've explained that. The cart is
emptied on the completion info from the server, but left if it fails so
you can try again.


--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:33 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Roy Lambert wrote:

> If you ask for permission and receive it then fine, otherwise no.

Well, I share your view, which is why I'm surprised by it happening.
I've just done a test here, and looking at the Chrome debug info, I can
see that it is stored in the session storage. Thus it will live for a
short while, and then die when the session dies. I would presume that
won't survive past a reboot. Not heard of "Maxthon", but will check it
out, and test further. The only attempt my code makes to store your
details "permanently" is if you check the "save my details" box. If you
uncheck it, then it is immediately deleted too.

I will do more research, as this is not expected.

--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:39 AMPermanent Link

Matthew Jones

Matthew Jones wrote:

> see that it is stored in the session storage.

Hmm, I wonder if this is the Maxthon browser being clever. The video
shows someone viewing a news site on their PC, and then picking up on
their phone. To do that, you'd need the session storage to be shared.
It may be that the session storage is therefore living longer than
might be expected, and of course past a reboot as it is given back by
the cloud when you restart. I will check more.

--

Matthew Jones
Wed, Jul 16 2014 9:43 AMPermanent Link

Roy Lambert

NLH Associates

Team Elevate Team Elevate

Matthew

>> If you ask for permission and receive it then fine, otherwise no.
>
>Well, I share your view, which is why I'm surprised by it happening.
>I've just done a test here, and looking at the Chrome debug info, I can
>see that it is stored in the session storage. Thus it will live for a
>short while, and then die when the session dies. I would presume that
>won't survive past a reboot. Not heard of "Maxthon", but will check it
>out, and test further. The only attempt my code makes to store your
>details "permanently" is if you check the "save my details" box. If you
>uncheck it, then it is immediately deleted too.
>
>I will do more research, as this is not expected.

This is the one I use

http://dl.maxthon.com/mx3/mx3.5.2.1000.exe

not the cloud version. Its very popular in Asia. I moved to it years ago because back then it was the only tabbed browser going. I still prefer it - for one it doesn't shut down just because I close the last tab.

I think I did click save my details, but that was because I couldn't see any way other than that of exiting the form asking for my details.

Roy Lambert
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