Tim,

<<  In addition, there are ways to be helpful with criticisms, and there are
ways to simply be a nuisance, and sometimes it is easy to cross the line
from one to the other. >>

Don't worry about it - you won't see a single contribution from me in these
newsgroups in future.

Ole

"Tim Young [Elevate Software]" <timyoung@elevatesoft.com> wrote in message
news:856F11D5-6901-4129-BA7A-5023F8E73AE0@news.elevatesoft.com...
> Michael,
>
>
> That's not it at all.  The issue is that the product isn't done, hence it
> is counter-productive to sit here and hash out the various opinions about
> what everyone wants.  It doesn't accomplish anything other than to
> distract from the task at hand - getting the product done.  Once the
> product is done, then we can discuss what everyone does or doesn't like.
>

By then it's usually too late. The time to design is before you code.

Robert

Robert,

> By then it's usually too late. The time to design is before you code.

Camels, Race Horses, Committees, Issigonis.....

Eryk

"Eryk Bottomley" <no@way.com> wrote in message
news:00014827-7A0C-4FE2-8452-81DFA2043E74@news.elevatesoft.com...
> Robert,
>
>> By then it's usually too late. The time to design is before you code.
>
> Camels, Race Horses, Committees, Issigonis.....
>

Agree with you. But then, why bother with the fig leaf that "we'll discuss
the features in the new system after the new system is completed"? Just say
"it's my product, and it will be done my way" and be done with the
discussion.

Robert

Charalabos


>See Windows 98 and Windows Millenium. Most of the customers
>prefered Windows 98SE becasue Windows Millenium didn't offered
>something new that they needed to upgrade. On the other side
>Windows XP offered many new things that many decided to upgrade
>from Windows 98!

I mildly disagreed with some of your other points but this one has me seeing red.

People didn't like WinMe because it was actually less stable than W98. People upgrade to WinXP because 1) they buy a new PC and don't have any choice 2) they're part of some corporate role out program which is often operated under the "no choice" system from M$. Much the same applies to M$Word.

I do agree that you should listen to what your customers want, but it shouldn't just be on a "ask for anything and I'll deliver basis". I also don't believe that M$ really ask what their customers want. What they do is deliver feature bloat and then convince customers they can't live without it.

I'm not a total luddite but I do strongly believe that a lot of the "progress" in the computer world has been more of the tinsel, smoke and mirrors variety rather than true progress.

Roy Lambert

ps Tim - no need to reply just get on developing

Robert


Well it is Tim's toy after all - we don't have to play with it if we don't want. However my guess is that Tim DOES have a design and we're wanting him to change it half way through so although it may be more difficult to retrofit (or remove) features its a damn sight harder to make progress with a shifting design.

Look at UKGov's record of major IT implementations if you want to see how not to do it.

Roy Lambert

Roy,

<< Look at UKGov's record of major IT implementations if you want to see how not to do it. >>

ROFL !
That's your taxes and mine paying for all that shambles year after year.

Dan

Hello Tim,

> That's not it at all.  The issue is that the product isn't done, hence it is
> counter-productive to sit here and hash out the various opinions about what
> everyone wants.  It doesn't accomplish anything other than to distract from
> the task at hand - getting the product done.  Once the product is done, then
> we can discuss what everyone does or doesn't like.

Make the product then! =)


--
Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.com -
http://www.creationpower.gr

Hello Ole,

> Don't worry about it - you won't see a single contribution from me in these
> newsgroups in future.

<slap>! You had more agressive arguments with Tim in tha past.
Now this bother you ? Come on ...

--
Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.com -
http://www.creationpower.gr

Hello Robert,

> Agree with you. But then, why bother with the fig leaf that "we'll discuss
> the features in the new system after the new system is completed"? Just say
> "it's my product, and it will be done my way" and be done with the
> discussion.

Well i don't think that Tim thinks that way. It's just
what he says. Let him finish some PRIMARY features he has
on his mind/list first.

--
Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.com -
http://www.creationpower.gr