Fons,

> Really? Well, I am pleasantly surprised   Good to hear that a
> multi-million dollar company uses DBISAM, probably they use other
> databases as well, but still, this is really nice to hear.

Since you are Dutch - ABN-AMRO were not DBISAM users and the company is
currently being dismantled by a consortium of three companies two of
whom do use DBISAM. It would nice to be able to suggest that one fact
lead to the other ...but I think that might be taking things too far

> Glad you agree that it's likely, but I don't quite follow on the "edge
> cases" part.

An "edge case" or "corner case" is a scenario that arises at the
boundaries of the designed field of operation of a system and can
generally be safely ignored.

> Ok, fair enough, D8 (.Net only) through D2005 pretty much sucked. D2006
> for me was okay, but for most it was not. With this in mind, maybe
> phasing D7 out is to soon. If D2005 and D2006 were actually any good,
> you agree it would have been a whole other story...

I agree completely. This is not about supporting outdated IDEs in
abstract terms, it is about the specific case of Delphi and the
laughable quality of D2005 and D2006. Naturally it is not Elevate's
fault that BorGear released rubbish for two upgrade cycles - but
equally, when you produce a symbiotic product you cannot as a matter of
practicality just disregard such things.

> You agree again. Damn, I was hoping for a big discussion     As for
> the time period, the end of 2009 is more than generous and cannot be
> reason for anyone to complain about. All things must come to an end.

I am basing that on the assumption that Tiburon ships around the middle
of 2008 and becomes reliably stable after SP3 around Q4 2008. That then
gives 9 months for critical mass of the user base to upgrade and, in
addition, by that time the contemporary ElevateDB release should be
almost completely stable and therefore able to support D7 users without
updates for several more years (just as DBISAM V3 does for some people
today).

Eryk

Eryk,

> Since you are Dutch - ABN-AMRO were not DBISAM users and the company is
> currently being dismantled by a consortium of three companies two of whom
> do use DBISAM. It would nice to be able to suggest that one fact lead to
> the other ...but I think that might be taking things too far

This is correct, the dismantling I mean. A fine example of how small the
world can be - a relative small American company such as Elevate Software
and a big b comparison company in the Netherlands. If one of them is
Fortris, I am really amazed DBISAM is used by them. Don't get me wrong,
DBISAM is great, just never thought such a company would use it.

> An "edge case" or "corner case" is a scenario that arises at the
> boundaries of the designed field of operation of a system and can
> generally be safely ignored.

Thanks for elaborating. It's more clear to me now.

> I agree completely. This is not about supporting outdated IDEs in abstract
> terms, it is about the specific case of Delphi and the laughable quality
> of D2005 and D2006. Naturally it is not Elevate's fault that BorGear
> released rubbish for two upgrade cycles - but equally, when you produce a
> symbiotic product you cannot as a matter of practicality just disregard
> such things.

No, you can't and unless I don't understand you, it hasn't been disregarded.

> I am basing that on the assumption that Tiburon ships around the middle of
> 2008 and becomes reliably stable after SP3 around Q4 2008. That then gives
> 9 months for critical mass of the user base to upgrade and, in addition,
> by that time the contemporary ElevateDB release should be almost
> completely stable and therefore able to support D7 users without updates
> for several more years (just as DBISAM V3 does for some people today).

I understand what you are saying. Did so the first time. I just added a
quarter to wrap it up nice and neat at the end of the year. As for rock-hard
stability of ElevateDB, I hope it will be sooner though than your estimate.
Have every bit of faith in Tim.

Since it is past midnight overhere, I will go sleep now.

Best regards,
Fons

Lucian,

<< It's going to be some time until Vista itself will work fine just "out of
the box" Hopefully, when that happens, D2007 will be fine too. >>

 The problems I see with Vista and .Net are mainly hardware-related.
They simply just require a bit more hardware than what is "current" at this
point.  That should change over the next few years.  Of course, Win32 will
still be fast as hell during that time period.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Stuart,

<< Maybe I'm missing something, but can't you move the code for ElevateDB
Manager to Delphi 2007? >>

Well, it compiles in Delphi 2007 also, but the reason for D7 was a base-line
bottom for the source code, which we provide for all of the utilities.  My
point was that there are some serious lack of newer UI capabilities in some
of the older Delphi versions.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

"Fons Neelen" <fons.neelen@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:8EB8772E-54A9-425F-915C-3B4D2DD4CA0D@news.elevatesoft.com...
>
> Really? Well, I am pleasantly surprised   Good to hear that a
> multi-million dollar company uses DBISAM, probably they use other
> databases as well, but still, this is really nice to hear.

Fons please DBisam is used in some big gun outfits.
The USPS for one use a DBisam 2 app written by
a guy from Ohio it was a clipper app converted to
Delphi Dbisam around the 2000 hype.
I also know of a trans national carrier using a Dbisam
delivery system down to zip or postal code satnav
enabled for tracking. My own app also came from
Clipper to Delphi Dbisam 1st appeared on CPM
dBase 2.4 and the biggest road haulier in the UK
used it. Now over 2500 medium sized courier/haulier
and taxi outfits use it, after a near death experience
this year I sold it off to my biggest competitor.
Now I'am back with a foggy brain and a great idea
and a huge potential market worldwide DBISAM
will be my database of choice for the simple reason
it just works and in client server mode u dont need
a science degree to be Admin.
So called mom and pop operations cant afford an
IT guy to add a user on their servers, but a lot of the
guys I sold my app too knuckle dragging ex cons
have little education but show them once how to setup
a DBisam server and away they go.
So please dont show suprise about the size of outfits
using DBisam its not a toy its the real thing.
Now web host guys start supporting Elevate products
or my knuckle dragging buddies will come calling

Eryk Tim's former co-worker told me that the Hong Kong
jockey club use Dbisam I'am well pleased because that
is a huge player in racing circles bigger than
UK-US-Eire-AUS combined and as my new plan involves
horse racing I'am tickled pink.

Rita

Tim


>The problems I see with Vista and .Net are mainly hardware-related.
>They simply just require a bit more hardware than what is "current" at this
>point. That should change over the next few years. Of course, Win32 will
>still be fast as hell during that time period.

Being an old fart I have severe problems with the implications of that statement. What is wrong with developing good solid FAST code under the existing hardware. I accept there will be some things which can't be achieved at speed with current hardware but I'm positive many things could be improved with better coding.

We should not be accepting this sort of justification for slow software!

Roy Lambert

Rita,

> Fons please DBisam is used in some big gun outfits.
> The USPS for one use a DBisam 2 app written by
> a guy from Ohio it was a clipper app converted to
> Delphi Dbisam around the 2000 hype.

I couldn't be more pleased, really, but I just never imagined it. Let's hope
ElevateDB can rival and even do better than DBISAM !!

> ...DBISAM
> will be my database of choice for the simple reason
> it just works and in client server mode u dont need
> a science degree to be Admin.

That is just works is most important - it needs to be rock solid, and it is.
As for its ease of use, well, I am no rocket scientist either  and
that's why I like these databases so much. I have a financial background and
tought myself programming and some database skills. So, ease of use and rock
solid stability is what I am after. And Elevate Software delivers. Period.

And the excellent help files are also a plus. This is sometimes overlooked,
but without it even the best software fails for (novice) users.

Fons

Roy,

<< Being an old fart I have severe problems with the implications of that
statement. What is wrong with developing good solid FAST code under the
existing hardware. I accept there will be some things which can't be
achieved at speed with current hardware but I'm positive many things could
be improved with better coding.

We should not be accepting this sort of justification for slow software! >>

Well, good luck with that.  Obviously I agree with you completely, but I
don't code the MS software, so there's nothing I can do about it.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Tim



>Well, good luck with that. Obviously I agree with you completely, but I
>don't code the MS software, so there's nothing I can do about it.

Strangely enough its not a battle I would expect to win either

Roy Lambert

Roy,

<< Strangely enough its not a battle I would expect to win either >>

Indeed.  If I thought I could win it, then I would start by firing the
designer of the Visual Studio designer/extensibility layer.  It takes the
idea of complexity for the sake of complexity to new heights.  Why just use
registred packages/assemblies for design-time integration when you can mix
in 1 part registry settings, 1 part XML streams, 1 part code, throw in
virtually no way to accurately debug the implementation without simply
guessing, and you've got yourself a real winner.  I always thought the
Borland design-time integration to be a pain, but it's a dream compared to
Visual Studio.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com