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Sequenced? |
Tue, Apr 17 2007 5:55 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Mauricio,
<< Well, it seems that I am alone in this fight, so I will retreat, at least for now >> Sorry to be such a hard-ass about this, but I'm trying to move EDB in a certain direction, and putting the index statistics back in would move it in the opposite direction. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Tue, Apr 17 2007 6:33 PM | Permanent Link |
Charalabos Michael | Hello Tim,
> << Let's say that i'm building a custom grid ... Do you have any idea how to > know which it's the position of the current record ? >> > > The only way would be to navigate the dataset and count the rows. Wouldn't be faster if EDB creates a fast temporary "count" index in order to make the query/table sequenced ? -- Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.gr |
Tue, Apr 17 2007 6:34 PM | Permanent Link |
Charalabos Michael | Hello Mauricio,
> <<No, it wouldn't. You don't understand the index format, so I can understand > why you would think this, but the index format and the way the index costs > are estimated now do not allow for turning statistics on or off. They > simply aren't there, nor will they ever be there.>> > > Well, it seems that I am alone in this fight, so I will retreat, at least for now Well, i'm still hate the 3 scroll bars state think and as you can see i'm pushing Tim for a ... "solution" without adding statistics ... -- Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.gr |
Tue, Apr 17 2007 8:41 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Michael,
<< Well, i'm still hate the 3 scroll bars state think and as you can see i'm pushing Tim for a ... "solution" without adding statistics ... >> There is no solution without statistics, unless you care to simply never see another live dataset in EDB. In that case, I can provide counts all day long. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Tue, Apr 17 2007 8:44 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Michael,
<< Wouldn't be faster if EDB creates a fast temporary "count" index in order to make the query/table sequenced ? >> Umm, that's what the statistics did, essentially. Besides, what you're proposing is creating a shadow index for every index order in a given dataset, which as you can imagine is a non-starter. Trust me on this guys/gals, I've been doing this for a long time and I've thought this through very thoroughly. There is no solution to the issue apart from using index statistics. To see this for yourselves, go try to find another database engine besides DBISAM that provides logical sequence numbers of *live* datasets without counting rows. -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
Wed, Apr 18 2007 7:03 PM | Permanent Link |
Charalabos Michael | Hello Tim,
> Umm, that's what the statistics did, essentially. Besides, > what you're proposing is creating a shadow index for every > index order in a given dataset, which as you can imagine is > a non-starter. Yeap but why non-starter ? It will defently cause a delay on large datasets but it will not on small datasets. Take for an example QuantumGrid when it loads the dataset into memory in order to have accurate scrollbar. It's pretty fast! EDB can do it with the only difference that it will not store the index into memory (can't imaging loading million records into memory! but instead on the hard disk. > Trust me on this guys/gals, I've been doing this for a long > time and I've thought this through very thoroughly. There is > no solution to the issue apart from using index statistics. To > see this for yourselves, go try to find another database engine > besides DBISAM that provides logical sequence numbers of *live* > datasets without counting rows. I trust you and i have a feeling that you have some kind solution in your genius head ... > There is no solution without statistics, unless you care to simply never see > another live dataset in EDB. In that case, I can provide counts all day > long. Here's what i'm thinking. EDB creates a "Shadow/Hidden" index upon the query execution. The query will still be live (so that we can edit etc) but it will cause a delay for creation the "shadow" index. This on the fly and as an option. Eg, if someone wants this then it will have to enable it or something but by default will be off. So ... EDB will work like (Table.Open or Query.Open): 1) Open the query internally 2) Makes the "Shadow" index 3) Now we can see/use the data. Soooo, the developer will choose. Please, put it in your plan if it's possible. (even as not high priority) Thank you! -- Charalabos Michael - [Creation Power] - http://www.creationpower.gr |
Thu, Apr 19 2007 6:32 PM | Permanent Link |
Tim Young [Elevate Software] Elevate Software, Inc. timyoung@elevatesoft.com | Michael,
<< Yeap but why non-starter ? It will defently cause a delay on large datasets but it will not on small datasets. >> Then what's the point ? If you're using a small dataset, then just count the rows yourself and display the row number value. We're not particularly interested in adding features to EDB that are only useful under 10,000 rows. << Take for an example QuantumGrid when it loads the dataset into memory in order to have accurate scrollbar. It's pretty fast! EDB can do it with the only difference that it will not store the index into memory (can't imaging loading million records into memory! but instead on the hard disk. >> Sorry, but you're not seeing the whole picture. There's a *lot* more to this than what you're discussing. You haven't even touched on the issue of live datasets and change detection/concurrency issues. Do you propose that this index be rebuilt every time changes are detected in the source dataset ? << I trust you and i have a feeling that you have some kind solution in your genius head ... >> There is no solution to this issue other than index statistics. << Here's what i'm thinking. EDB creates a "Shadow/Hidden" index upon the query execution. The query will still be live (so that we can edit etc) but it will cause a delay for creation the "shadow" index. This on the fly and as an option. Eg, if someone wants this then it will have to enable it or something but by default will be off. >> And changes by other users ? Do we just ignore them and allow the logical row numbers in this index to become corrupted and useless ? -- Tim Young Elevate Software www.elevatesoft.com |
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