>>I'm NEVER happy to pay for things

So you are happier with things that are crappy...and free ?

You are spending so much money in your life for things, that aren't worth anything. Isn't
it a good feeling to spend money (and therefore support) for something that really rocks,
that makes your life easier, that gives you possibilities you otherwise wouldn't have ?

I like spending money for the RIGHT things...

Heiko


We obviously have different senses of humor.

Roy Lambert

>>We obviously have different senses of humor.

Or we are speaking different languages, which makes it hard for me to decide when someone
is serious, and when not

Ron,

<< Well, I suppose in reading it again they could clarify what constitutes a
minor release.  Is a pure bugfix release considered a minor release? >>

No, bug-fixes are builds, whereas minor releases include functionality
upgrades.

<< Or is it (what I would expect) a release with significant new features,
but not enough for a "major" release.  Also, in the new support plan line
item I see in my purchase there is now an annual support contract at $0.  I
purchased
the promo for EDB v2.0 on Feb 20th.  I take that to mean I'm grandfathered
as an existing customer on an annual support contract until at least Feb
20th next year.  I don't see a date on any of these support line items
confirming the particular date, though. >>

When EDB 2.0 is released, you'll have the included 1-year of support from
the date of the release.  The date used for the support plan is the order
date for the order on which the support line item exists, the same as with
normal purchases.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Roy,

<< Reading the bumph on the web site the only thing I have against it is
we'll loose the superb input into these newsgroups that Tim has made over
the years, but at least he isn't going as far as TMS and restricting access
to the NG's for non-registered users. >>

I'll still be around quite often.  The point of the support plans is to get
away from the major upgrade cycle first and foremost, meaning that the
attraction should be getting the minor releases when they come out.  Without
an active support plan, you can't download the latest minor release.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Mark,

<< Ok, I understand that you want to go to a support plan for upgrades and
minor releases which contain new or enhanced functionality, but why should
your customers be forced to pay for bug fixes? >>

We aren't requiring them to do so.   Bug fixes are builds, which are
included as part of the support plan (even if it has expired) up until the
next minor release (x.02, x.03, etc.)  After that point, if your support
plan has expired, you'll be required to purchase a new one to get the new
minor release and any bug fix builds after it.  That's about the only way we
can do it and have it still work as a paid support plan while being as fair
as possible.

<< Let's say you release a product that is described to work a specific way,
a person buys it expecting it to work a specific way, but in the course of
normal, documented use, it doesn't work in the specific way as described.
Now you expect the customer to spend more money to make what they were told
would work, really work?  >>

If a person just bought the software, then they automatically get a 1-year
support plan as part of the purchase.  Therefore, I'm having a hard time
understanding how your scenario would play out.  Are you talking about
someone finding a bug in the software a week or so before their support
contract expires ?

<< I might go for this new policy if you would grandfather everyone who is
on a current product until the next Major release. But to change policy on
product versions already sold and being used is a bit unethical. >>

So, your recommendation would be that we continue to provide free support
for all existing users forever and simply charge new customers after their
first year expires ?  At one point would you say that an existing user has
received fair value for their purchase ?  DBISAM 4.x customers that bought
when it was released have received 26 minor releases, untold bug fixes, and
4 years of support for their single purchase.  Would you consider that fair
and ethical ?

As for grandfathering in until the next major release - DBISAM probably
won't have another major release, which was the whole point of the support
plans for existing DBISAM customers.  Did you not receive the emails that we
sent out detailing why we're doing the support plans in the first place ?

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

In article <9C162961-71B8-4451-9AC9-D8867B0C7ED5@news.elevatesoft.com>,
Tim Young [Elevate Software] wrote:
> I'll still be around quite often.  The point of the support plans is
> to get away from the major upgrade cycle first and foremost, meaning
> that the attraction should be getting the minor releases when they come
> out.  Without an active support plan, you can't download the latest
> minor release.

As I said to you in a PM, we have done this since 1993 and it has been a
win-win for us and the users, us because we get the steady cashflow, and
the users because good ideas get implemented as soon as we are able
rather than being saved up. To those who are doubtful, it is your
interest that the person maintaining something you rely on is making
money from doing so!

--
Tony Bryer   SDA UK   'Software to build on'   www.sda.co.uk

Tony,

<< As I said to you in a PM, we have done this since 1993 and it has been a
win-win for us and the users, us because we get the steady cashflow, and the
users because good ideas get implemented as soon as we are able rather than
being saved up. To those who are doubtful, it is your interest that the
person maintaining something you rely on is making money from doing so! >>

http://www.elevatesoft.com/customer?action=login

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Tony,

Sorry about that, I plugged in a response link to another private email into
your response.

My response was going to be:

<< As I said to you in a PM, we have done this since 1993 and it has been a
win-win for us and the users, us because we get the steady cashflow, and the
users because good ideas get implemented as soon as we are able rather than
being saved up. To those who are doubtful, it is your interest that the
person maintaining something you rely on is making money from doing so! >>

This was the overwhelming majority of the responses that we received
regarding the support plans.

--
Tim Young
Elevate Software
www.elevatesoft.com

Heiko


That would probably work as well

Roy Lambert